The 650 Dakar Thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by underwaterguru, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. Gravel Seeker

    Gravel Seeker Old, growing older.

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    Yes, I have those clips still, they're on the other side for the throttle and brake as well.
    Swapped out the stock headlight and dash in 2003 so have no idea what interferes with what stock any more.
    It's becoming clear to me that I've actually done a fair bit of modifications to it since I picked it up with a massive 2km on the odo in august 2002. You can throw a rock at it and chances are it'll hit something modified :D
  2. Burner25

    Burner25 Been here awhile

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    Hi don
    Can you post some pictures of your efforts, I’m thinking of protaper bars on mine and I may try to keep the stock grips.
    I was going to say , are the threads on the tap and screw the same, but I’m sure you thought of that!
  3. Burner25

    Burner25 Been here awhile

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    Metrics/ imperial!
  4. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

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    It is a long time ago but assuming my memory is not defective it is a 4mm countersunk, my questions are however why no metric kit & why is the hole chamfered ?
  5. Don Coyote

    Don Coyote Long timer

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    What are you saying isn't able to self tap? The screws with the heated grips have groves in the side (sort of visible in my pic above), and komitas calls them self tapping in his bar change tutorial. It just seems the alloy is soft so I need the exact size pilot hole for it to work?
  6. Don Coyote

    Don Coyote Long timer

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    sorry if this is in your signature, but I'm on my phone browser and can't see. What year? Do you have stock heated grips?
  7. Gravel Seeker

    Gravel Seeker Old, growing older.

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    I dunno.
    In you first post I thought you said you drilled a straight hole, then tried to use the screw to self tap. That might work as, as you say, it has grooves along it length.
    But in your second post you show a photo of a tap. So if you tap'd the hole and that tap is US imperial it won't have the same threads as the metric screw so the screw will just rip the imperial threads out.

    I can't recall really what the stock grips were like, but isn't the screw countersunk into the plastic of the grip, slightly under the rubber? Why then countersink the hole in the bars? Or is that just where the screw has been chewing it up?
  8. Don Coyote

    Don Coyote Long timer

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    The chamfer would be the bit the screw tore out when I tried to work it into the smaller tapped hole. The countersink is taken care of by the plastic housing. I just inherited a dump truck of tools so still figuring out what I have. This tap set wasn't labeled but have figured out it is freedom units now. Still not sure if I need to go buy a metric tap kit or would a 3 (4?) mm pilot hole let it tap itself in? If I could id my alloys I might have some spare bike parts around to experiment on...
  9. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

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    Suggest you look at the table of drill & tap sizes, with alloy I go down in 0.1mm in drill size if I I have full tap to use not an intermediate or end tap

    My memory of the BMW screw is it was a machine screw designed o tap & create thread in one action by automated system, probably still in the junk bin
  10. Burner25

    Burner25 Been here awhile

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    Yeh heated grips 2006, doing the yz fork thing ,, so I’ll change bars to renthals/protaper while I’m at it. I’ve not made up my mind if I’m keeping stock heated grips or not. I might have a try with stock , but when I mess it up buy Oxfords!!.
    Thanks
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  11. velo-hobo

    velo-hobo *_*

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    If the hole in the bar now passes a 3.97mm drill or blank, then it's too blown out for an M4 screw at this point. M4 fastener major diameter is typically a little under 4mm, .03mm is only ~.0012" Which is almost inconsequential in this situation.

    An 8-32 tap will not work for an M4 screw. (10-32 and M5 are sort of close and you can get away with substituting them sometimes, but I don't recommend it. For socket head cap screws in those sizes, the hex keys are 5/32 and 4mm, which are nearly identical as well)

    If it's truly bodged you may have to use a pop rivet instead of a screw, that would at least have a low-profile head. Else you're getting into the territory of modifying the grip. But isn't it true that the stock LH grip has two screw holes? I think if you get at least one in properly, the other can be sort of dodgy.
  12. puchyyla

    puchyyla Adventurer

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    UNC and metric threads are absolutely uncompatible! And this is metric M4x0,7. You need to drill 3,2mm hole and cut std M4 thread. Or just convert it to UNC. Find any similar UNC screw, cut same UNC thread and the original screw throw far far away. Trust me, I've mount ZAP handlebars two months ago.
    20200811_113302.jpg 20200811_171916.jpg

    Attached Files:

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  13. Renaissanceman

    Renaissanceman DON'T PANIC! Supporter

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    Self tapping screws still need the appropriate sized pilot hole. Just sneak up on it - maybe find some similar material to practice on.
    Also, keep in mind that the screw only needs to resist sheer forces - once the grip is installed, it can't fall out.
  14. Don Coyote

    Don Coyote Long timer

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    If you want to keep the stock grips, you have the choice of cutting off the bar end adapters from the OEM bars and figuring out how to attach them to the fat bars, or to rewind them like I am doing, so that the wires follow with the other controls on the outside of the bars. Perhaps with crash bars the adapters wouldn't take as much of a beating, but bent adapters have been a commonly seen trait on this generation of GSs, and broken heated grips a close companion, so I decided to go to the trouble of a rewind. Apart from crash damage they seem to work excellently.

    My stumbling attempts at this are being recorded here. I bought a M4 tap so should find out if this whole thing works later tonight or sometime tomorrow. This approach is not for the feint of heart, but I have the time to dedicate to it right now and prefer a solution that involves as much hands-on work as possible. At least the pictures should help give an idea of what you will find once you start digging into the system.

    WayneC has a couple of tutorials on reusing the adapters with regular stock grips at crossroadz. He also has pics of how the new G versions have the cables routed similar to what I am going for. Before going to Oxfords I'd look around hard for a used pair of heated grips from a G and try to wire those into the old stock switch. I'm not sure if they are as effective or generally robust as the old grips though...
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  15. Don Coyote

    Don Coyote Long timer

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    So how do I determine this is a 4mmx.7mm as opposed to 4mmx.75mm? The tables that came with my tap kit show both as options (no idea why it shows metric since threads are incompatible- Craftsman is too cheap to print 2 different inserts?). I checked 2 different big box home stores tonight and neither had metric kits, seems I was lucky to find individual taps at one. They only had 4mmx.7 and it didn't come with a bit. The package and the Craftsman table say it will work with a 1/8 bit although the table WayneC linked to doesn't mention anything but a 3.4mm bit working. I have dozens of drill bits around, but none of the ones that are labeled are metric. Given WayneC's comment about sizing down for alloy, sounds like the 1/8 is a good bet- any wagers before I post results?

    Oh, and does cutting fluid make any difference on a small job like this?
  16. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

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    Considering past performance .........my wager is you will muck it up :imaposer
  17. velo-hobo

    velo-hobo *_*

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    I've never encountered an M4x0.75 thread. I think .75mm pitch is associated with M4.5, which I've also never encountered. M4x0.7 is standard and common.

    The tap drill I typically use for M4 is a #30, which is a few thousandths of an inch larger than 1/8". So you can try a 1/8" drill and see if the tap cuts cleanly.

    Cutting fluid never hurts when tapping aluminum. Any light oil or even kerosene is fine. With no lubricant, some aluminum alloys can clog up the threads on a fine/small tap such as an M3 and then you end up destroying the threaded hole as you remove the tap.
  18. puchyyla

    puchyyla Adventurer

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    M4x0.75 doesn't exist. Or no in metric system world :-) With the bit it isn't so hot. When I was at school we've learned two rules for it.
    First is for all threads (all pitches) and says the bit size = thread size - pitch (4mm - 0.7mm = 3.3mm).
    The second is just for std pitches and is easier when you don't know the pitch but you know it is std and says bit size = thread size x 0.8 (4mm x 0.8 = 3.2mm).
    However theese two results may look different 3.2mm is common size of drill bit and 3.3mm is quite special. So in the real world for 3.3mm and 3.2mm you just use the same bit thread.
  19. Don Coyote

    Don Coyote Long timer

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    Guess you have to take that one up with Craftsman:
    [​IMG]
    Someone should just come up with a simple common sense standard for all of this stuff that everyone uses, all this conversion noise is confusing...
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  20. velo-hobo

    velo-hobo *_*

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    That chart has multiple errors. The intermediate, coarser pitches should be M3.5x.60, M4.5x.75, M5.5x.90. From there the intermediates are metric fine thread and seem correct. Craftsman got sold to Stanley Black & Decker so I think complaints go directly into the bin.