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The best rebuttal to EM skeptics

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by ctromley, Dec 18, 2018.

  1. Cataract2

    Cataract2 Where to?

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    Well, for full scale rapidly that would require the country to adjust it's priorities. Sure. Yet we do have growing charging networks right now. Take a look at plugshare.com
  2. ZoomerP

    ZoomerP . Supporter

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    I was referring to @mr72 's comments about embedding charging infrastructure in roadways. Adjusting priorities to improve the condition of roads in North America to the point where adding power to the pavement is safe & reliable doesn't seem likely to me. Elsewhere, it may well be a viable technology, though. It could also be adopted in areas that are restricted to EV-only transportation, such as city centers, where a fleet of EVs could be available for rental to travel about a city's core.

    Stop n' Charge points are steadily increasing in number across North America, and seem much more likely to stay the preferred charge method for away-from-home/work power in the near future. Even if I wouldn't be bothered by swapping my known-good battery for whatever was next on the stack, power & charging standards seem much easier to establish than any battery swapping scheme across vehicle makes, too.
  3. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    Battery swapping makes tons of sense - like swapping a propane canister... Pay the "deposit" for a battery and then it's up to the manufacturer to replace them as they get old... they have an internal coulomb counter to measure how much power you use and that's what you pay for with the overhead bundled into that cost...

    The problems beyond having zero political will in this country to push standards, they need to make these large and heavy batteries quick to swap and it's seems unlikely they'll have the robotics to make it self-serve anytime soon.. so another "just around the corner"...

    Just like widespread EV adoption in general, "just around the corner" means decades...


    Silly me - we just need to have faith! Praise EV!

    Whatever....

    How do I make a bunch of money off this false religion? :deal
    MJSfoto1956 likes this.
  4. ZoomerP

    ZoomerP . Supporter

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    You could invest in Tesla.

    upload_2020-8-26_19-13-46.png
  5. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    That's the past - my crystal ball is cloudy regarding their future

    Buy low - sell high... based on that now's the time to sell?

    and look how long you'd have had to sit on that while it did nothing....
  6. ZoomerP

    ZoomerP . Supporter

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    Ok. :rofl
  7. Cataract2

    Cataract2 Where to?

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  8. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    Sound investing is a lot of work!

    How about I invest in companies I understand better?

    I don't have any particular insight in Exxon or oil futures in general which don't seem like a good prospect now with such a depressed world economy

    I wonder how much paypal money is "invested" into tesla (or spacex for that matter)? Again, I have no particular insight although I do have a better than average understanding of the technologies due to my business, but not much into the particular players...

    Buy low - sell high! Worked for me in the past... but I not only understood the technology of the players but also their market space, the competitive landscape and their product roadmaps, etc.
  9. johngault

    johngault Leaning into it Supporter

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    Ha ha ha ha...
  10. johngault

    johngault Leaning into it Supporter

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    I guess you are to young to have been told over and over the planet we only a few more years before we are all dead.....the receding horizon end of the world. It always amazes me that thwre are so many people continuing to accept this tripe .....but then again there are people still buying timeshares.
  11. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    OTOH people are constantly trying to sell us that the technology to solve all the world's woes is neigh upon us

    While admittedly I can't see the future I'm guessing the truth is somewhere in between...
  12. tallpaul63

    tallpaul63 Long timer

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    Tell us about Ayn Rand, John. I love stories!
  13. Cataract2

    Cataract2 Where to?

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    Please, show us your work in how your disproved the climate scientists. We'll wait.
    MJSfoto1956 likes this.
  14. longslowdistance

    longslowdistance Long timer Supporter

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    Back to the OP:
    Best rebuttal to EM skeptics: Just try one.
    pretbek likes this.
  15. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    Just try one... If I try to drive across town and back just to run typical local errands and it runs out of juice... I'll be "impressed" alrighty... especially when I have to have it towed to a charging station and wait half an hour just to get enough juice to go home... and heaven forbid I look at the price tag... oh yeah... sign me up!

    I get that they're fun... I heard some guy say that pretty much everyone that drives a tesla wants one.... but only very few actually go buy one...
  16. Cataract2

    Cataract2 Where to?

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    So.... You don't own one and just know, right?:rolleyes

    I test drove a Tesla. Bought the Chevy Bolt. I get that you point out they aren't for you. That's great, but you seem to spend a shit ton of time in here pointing that out and are not getting into calling those who enjoy them, own them, and see that they are the future as being a faith. You have a lot of excuses, but no real world first hand info to back up those excuses. Just a lot of, what ifs. I can at least speak from the side of owning and driving mine all over.
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  17. ZoomerP

    ZoomerP . Supporter

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    I keep hearing about the vast distances involved in a trip across Phoenix. Exactly how many miles are we considering?
  18. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    If I were to drive from Chandler to the lab in Snotsdale and swing by Cabelas in Glendale on my way back home I'm over 100mi

    I have customers that I visit in town that are between 25 to 50mi away and too often will try and visit more than one on a given day for efficiency

    100mi is not uncommon just around town and let's remember that that would be about 20% stop and go city and the rest being mostly 85mph freeway so likely not the best for electric range

    Most people I know out here do 100-200+mi drives every couple of weeks just for outdoor recreation on top of around town (it's one of the big reasons we live here!) and if a vehicle can't support that then they would need two which most wouldn't find attractive... Some married couple might be able to justify that arrangement better I suppose

    Plug-in hybrids might be able to take on the tasks in a practical way but they are well out of my price range - that might be the only thing I see that's "just around the corner" if they come down in cost and I can buy used but it's still even optimistically a long corner

    I know a few people with electric cars out here but they all have more than just the car and frankly have a lot more money than I do - I have a lot of good friends out here that I spend time with (believe it or not! :lol2 ) and *none* of them have electric... we never bother really talking about it but I'd bet it's for the same reasons

    I'd like electric to work for me but it needs to be competitively priced to a used car and handle the range realities

    My house and my shop are about two miles from each other in Chandler and plenty of the time I ride my electric bike for that "commute"

    I'm not at all closed minded to this stuff - I really like the potential... but it's BS to think it's going to solve transportation issues for the majority of folks anytime soon.. If it works for you, I'm a bit envious... except that you clearly don't do the same things for recreation that we do... heck, the drive to the runway to go fly gliders is 100mi round trip from the house and I'm on the close side of town... and I want the option of "detours"... a quick jaunt to Tucson is 200mi round trip and Flagstaff closer to 250mi if I take slab and gets closer to 375mi if I take my preferred route, the summer cabin we frequent is 225mi each way and power is solar so may or may not be able to charge

    Because my business involves the same technologies that EV's use I tend to get a lot of people sending me stuff about "the latest great innovation" that's going to change everything, blah, blah, blah... this has been going on for years and my eyes just sort of glaze over anymore since it's *always* some BS


    If you want to talk the positives while accepting the realities I'm game, but trivializing or ignoring those realities and brushing the majority of people that have to face them aside is going to get some push back...


    The "best rebuttal" is to get your head out of your own space and accept the reality of many (and likely most) people's requirements then show us practical [including competitive costs on used market] EV's for those requirements....
  19. Cataract2

    Cataract2 Where to?

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    https://www.tesla.com/used/5YJ3E1EA...stal=03076&coord=42.7288,-71.3046&redirect=no

    You're welcome.

    Of course, based on the mileage you posted. My Bolt could handle it. 100 miles round trip my Bolt can easily handle with no charge stops. (BTW, I take my Bolt on trips >200 miles.)

    BTW, you can charge from a 120V outlet worse comes to worse, say at like your cabin on solar. There are even smart chargers that work with your solar excess output. Do you just spend one day at your cabin?

    Worse you might just need to learn how to use plugshare and figure in fast charging stop. Stop, take a piss, get lunch. Whatever.
    upload_2020-8-28_12-56-42.png

    Zoomed out this is most likely not a complete representation of the options. This is the public system.

    For Tesla:
    upload_2020-8-28_12-57-47.png
    And with Tesla you get some of the fastest fast charging. Helps that they are paving the way really.

    Yes, I see some holes on the map, the reservations for one. That will have to be addressed with them since it's their nation.

    I wasn't sure if an electric would serve me well, especially with winters here in New England. (Can you say cold?) I took a chance, partially because I needed a new reliable machine since my old 2002 VW TDI was on it's last leg. I bought my Bolt in the winter and it has surpassed my expectations. There's been a learning curve to it, but I am now comfortable taking it anywhere.

    Also, with EVs, you need to drop the gas car mentality about "filling up". 90% of my charging is done at night while I sleep. You don't need a fast charger except for long road trips (like if I go north to the ski resorts). Even then, a Level 2 can work just fine if I'm going to be somewhere all day. The car is just sitting sipping electrons then from the charger then and will be "full" when I'm ready to leave.
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  20. ZoomerP

    ZoomerP . Supporter

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    After all of that, an electric car with a 200 mile range would meet most of your complaints - big surprise.
    No matter. You've made it clear than an electric car would make you unhappy.
    Don't buy one. Problem solved.

    No one here said that EVs were for everyone, were for the majority of drivers, that one would work for you, that you had to have one, etc.
    Why do you continue to harp on these imagined points of contention?
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