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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by scapegoat, Sep 10, 2019.
I'm not a doctor. A doctor would have blown through $7.5K to achieve the same result. Shrugs.
Amazing how "insurance" has changed, or should I say cost shifting maneuver. Roughly a dozen years ago, my subsidizer, a major fortune 500 company provided excellent coverage as a part of a benefits package. Things changed. Costs for care increased dramatically, due to a variety of reasons not related to the care itself. Anyhoo, the fortune 500 company decided that they didn't like having an unknown liability hanging over their income statement, so they decided to slide out of the business, without ever really stating it. Their call.
OP asks a valid question and one worth careful consideration. Today, my "coverage" has morphed into just a catastrophic arrangement, whereby I basically cover the first 10-12k, so I have to have that on me all the time. Per year. So, to answer your question, OP, I think that it depends on how old you are and what you want in your life. I'm getting closer to the end of the trail, so there's no way that I would restrain for the sake of safety and what might happen. I see neighbors, friends and family hit by stroke, PAD, and Alzheimer's almost every week. It is heartbreaking to see them suffer. I would hate to think that I had "saved up" for THAT. If anything, I believe that we have to turn up the volume a bit.
And always have a back up plan.
When this happened I was working "self employed" so no workers comp. Ive got a couple guys I do this for but I might have to change that one. We have Blue shield/Anthem. I think I recall a out of pocket max now that I think about it and hopefully that will lower the hit for us. Bad part is Im pretty healthy, in decent shape, rarely drink and if I did I wont hop on a bike or car ever....anymore. This dogs me everyday lately, depresses me thinking about it. Ive never really put much thought into who would care of I clocked out in an accident. About that back up plan. I pack when I ride mostly, perfectly legal here in AZ. recon if I was torn up bad enough I just might. Between the financial aspect, and far more important leaving the wife behind ,Its a tough call. Ive never been bikeless really, now I feel like a caged animal waiting fro freedom again without 2 wheels.
Must be hard to look at a serious illness or accident potentially wiping you out financially. UK based here, if I get picked up off the road by an ambulance followed by A&E (ER), treatment and rehab, it would all be covered, 100%.
And proper riding gear.
Well, Scape, I'm hoping that the depressed state passes soon. IMHO, every individual has to weigh the risks and move forward at the level that we are comfortable. Maybe it will take you some time to get there. That said, I think that there are many things we can do to help minimize the risk, just like your decision to carry. Carrying is a form of risk aversion. Personally, I don't carry because the juice is not worth the squeeze when I am alone. But it is quite different when I have one of my girls along; that is a time when I take big precautions.
All together, I think that adventure riding, as opposed to other forms, has a lot less risk. When I was road racing and track day riding, I had some gnarly crashes and some fantastic medical bills. And, I likely missed probably twice the number of additional crashes. Contrast that with the adventure riding stuff that I have done since 2015. I cannot even count the number of times that I've "crashed". I call it a crash when I am on the bike and then I am suddenly on the ground. Bruised and scraped is about the worst because the speeds are much lower. It is also much safer because adventure riding typically occurs in rural areas. How about street riding? In 36 years of riding on the street, I haven't had a single crash. But, considering what I have seen from other riders, I think that my success has been just dumb luck. I believe that street riding is the most dangerous riding that there is. Yet, I believe that the risks there can be mitigated by at least half if you try.
You mentioned your wife. That's a big consideration, IMO. Your death is one thing, but I believe that incapacitation is a much greater consideration. From my track days, I've had to have someone to care for me because of a crash. I never want to be there again. It sucks. Fortunately, I don't have that problem anymore, so it is not an issue for me. I suppose that I would rank that issue a lot higher for you, much higher than the cost of medical care.
Owen -- Don't feel too sorry for us. For the most part, if you are a working person, even in the UK, you will pay one way or the other.
Plan B is a bad idea. It’s the most selfish act a person can commit. It forever redefines who you were to your family and friends. And they will never get over it. Ever.
Instead sign a DNR and make your friend ..... not your family the medical POA. Your family will chicken out and make the doctors keep your battered carcass alive. Your friend might honor his oath to you to let you go if the situation is bad enough.
Or, don’t crash. There’s always that.
Years ago I cut my finger at work that looked way worse than it was requiring 3 stitches. My manager panicked and called an ambulance for the 2.5 mile ride to the hospital. Looking at the bill between the ER and ambulance ride, the ambulance cost the most. I could have taken a Rolls Royce limo to the ER myself and it would have been cheaper.
Funny how managers are... I cut my hand open at work, requiring 17 stitches. My boss let me wait for the other driver to get back in so he could give me a ride to the walk in clinic. And no pain killers, because I got to go straight back to work.
Bullshit. Each situation is different.
I read about a couple that divorced due to illness. The sick one "agreed" to leave all the assets to the healthy one. And committed suicide afterwards. That left their spouse without the medical bills and with all the assets, and they didn't have to live the rest of the life with an incapacitating disease which quickly drained their savings/ retirement/ income. That was an act of love.
I feel terrible for them to have had to even consider that. Fuck our healthcare system.
That's actually quite smart.
I’ve watched this numerous times, even been that friend with the legal power. Almost without exception, it’s “not yet”.
As I’ve gotten older, I’ve come to better understand that “not yet”.
When I was on my 20’s, selfish and vain, the idea of living as say a quad was repugnant. Living as an old person was repulsive.
Now, older and more experienced,I wouldn’t be so upset at needing help with things like bodily functions. Now I understand why older workers tend to have a change of clothes with them. Been down those paths, didn’t actually die of shame.
I had umbilical hernia surgery last year. It wasn't an injury, just a long term medical condition. The total bill was over $100k, but my out of pocket was under $3k.
Yes, each is different. But any psychologist will tell you 99.999% of the time the people left behind never recover. Your one example that you read about somewhere isn't worth bringing up.
I broke my leg and ankle a few years ago, and my insurance paid for just about everything except the ambulance ride. It cost $1200 for about a mile in distance! Oh, and I had to pay for the oxygen that I got on the ambulance ride, too.
Yep. I was medivaced out one to shock trauma. But it required an ambulance ride to the helo pickup site. That ambulance ride was not covered by the insurance.
Going through the bills and the policy afterwards was fascinating. Reading all the exclusions and limitations in that ~700 page contract...not at all like the pretty ~10 page fluff sheet they gave me when I got the policy!
And this is with an expensive PPO BCBS policy.
Right. This is a workmen's comp case, not a motorcycle accident.
I don't worry about the cost, it is the sudden stop, pain, and disability that plays with my mind.
(three visits to the surgeon, rehab, and meds in my adult life have cost me less than $100)
The SO has good medical insurance.
"Out of pocket" means very little; quite a few providers (like most ambulance services) are deliberately not in any networks so they can charge whatever random number they want.
Oh, a random out of network surgeon walked past while they had your leg open? A guy you've literally neer met? Thanks for the boat payment, chump. Nope, no recourse, no writeoff. Pay up or go to collections.
You're in a network hospital with a network surgeon, but the anesthesiologist you had absolutely no role in choosing and didn't meet until you were on the slab decided he's not in your network? Enjoy paying for his new boat.
Oh, you had surgery in November, but your treatment spans several months? Your deductible starts over in January. Enjoy buying the CEO's jet fuel for a few hours, shitass.
OK, here's the list of in-network providers. Oops, sorry we changed it last week so that provider is now out of network after you booked your appointment and didn't tell anyone, not even the provider or their office.
OK, just kidding, trust us this time. Here's the real list of providers.... HA! Gotcha, sucker: that provider is in-network but her office isn't. So we'll pay her, but anything done by "the office", like blood work, tetanus shot, etc. is out of network. Thanks for the extra cash for the Board's hookers and blow.
Yes, all these are real and just some of the typical fuck-fuck games insurance and healthcare providers play every day.
Source: I have broken my femur three times in motorcycle accidents, none of which were my fault. And yes, I have greatly changed my riding habits. Sure, it's mostly because of the physical trauma, but the financial trauma is a large hunk of it, too. My "out of pocket" was $7,400 for the last one, and I could have bought a pimped-out new BMW GS with what I ended up on the hook for.
When I had shitty insurance that only had a network in certain parts of my state, I didn't leave Indiana much. I am now paying significantly more for insurance that works nationwide.
I've started trailering quite a bit more. Normally a 350-500 mile ride to get to a rally wouldn't bother me, but the risk/reward of droning along the interstate isn't there, and potential cost is part of the equation.
I also don't ride out of town during deer season. I'll commute in the city, but that's about it.
"Out of pocket" is bullshit.
And for-profit medical insurance is bullshit. Stick your "politics" up your ass; the experiment with for-profit medical care and medical insurance has failed badly. It's broken and needs to end so the US can join the first world. You are being told it's political by the assholes benefitting from this broken system.
I'm Canadian. I can't relate. Medical costs don't cross my mind much. I just know I am covered for most major primary care expenses. If not, I may have some nominal fees, EG ambulance ride? 45.00. PSA test? About the same.
What does cross my mind is wait lists for treatment or diagnosis. They can be long depending on the issue, EG wait 6 months to see a neurologist or dermatologist for a consultation.
Our system has its drawbacks, but, like I said, i just know I'm covered for most stuff, and don't worry about expenses very much if at all.
Don't Let The Fear Of What Could Happen Make Nothing Happen......