The CRF1000L Africa Twin problem thread

Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by twinrider, Mar 18, 2016.

  1. ya(x2)

    ya(x2) Long timer

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    Reported by a French rider from South-Est of France :
    GPS config : Garmin zumo + Hooratek support.
    Warranty : Claim accepted by Honda.
    IMG_2251.jpg
    IMG_2252.jpg
    NSFW likes this.
  2. jyrays

    jyrays The Wanderer

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    Accepted? Honda France or the local distributor?
  3. ya(x2)

    ya(x2) Long timer

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    Both Honda France and the dealership obviously ; but the dealership can be bypassed and your are entitled to contact Honda directly if you have to.

    This said, one who makes the maintenance himself and has a fully scratched / dented bike may have to be pushy when facing an unknown / unregistered issue to a dealership he doesn't know well.

    Unfair dealerships exist, but unfair riders also. It's never easy to deal with issues. This one is well known for (if not a year) many months ; so as long as you don't go to the dealership with a shitty bike and a broken... windshield, I mean.... The crossbar is made to install a navigation instrument (GPS or tripmaster). This trail bike is made to ride on tough roads.

    I imagine a claim for a rear broken rack will be more complicated to deal with but Honda has already accepted a few claims for this also.
    jyrays likes this.
  4. shanekfalcon

    shanekfalcon Been here awhile

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    The reason for replacing caliper bolts is probably that they are single use, stretch bolts. If you can source replacements, it would be a good idea. If you can't source replacements, be real careful when torquing up.

    Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk
    MiamiMotorcyclist likes this.
  5. Junglejeff1

    Junglejeff1 Long timer

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    Or replace them with regular bolts.
    DCTFAN and ripping r like this.
  6. Junglejeff1

    Junglejeff1 Long timer

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    I just did some research on tty bolts and it is very bad to retorx them to the same value.It looks like they use them in this application for 2 reasons.They will not loosen is one and the other is it keeps people from stripping out the threads.After reading about them I will replace mine when I can get some.It would be safer to run a standard bolt at a lower tork and check it than re using them.
  7. chrshale01

    chrshale01 Adventurer

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    My local dealer stocks absolutely nothing, not even common service parts. I order everything from these guys...http://www.babbittsonline.com/page/honda-parts. So far they've had everything I've wanted. And everything seems to be 10-15% off msrp.
    Junglejeff1 likes this.
  8. Junglejeff1

    Junglejeff1 Long timer

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    Thanks.Hit and miss at my dealer.
  9. michaeln

    michaeln What're YOU lookin' at?

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    I ordered the caliper bolts from RMAVMC. Took about six weeks to get them as they were back ordered. I have not installed them, still have them in their individual Honda plastic bags. Next time I have the calipers off, I will use those bolts.
    Junglejeff1 and chrshale01 like this.
  10. Junglejeff1

    Junglejeff1 Long timer

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    I have never dealt which stretch bolts on bike calipers before.May have something to do with there being mounted in line with bike rite thrue caliper but really no idea.Have used them on heads on car motors but not used to seeing them on my bikes.When I was looking for info on there use ran into alot of vw and aircraft use.
    chrshale01 likes this.
  11. ya(x2)

    ya(x2) Long timer

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    Thank you very much for having brought this to our attention. To be honest, I have bought the service manual very early but didn't go thru it for wheels removal because it was kinda straightforward.

    REAR WHEEL :
    I remove the rear wheel without removing the brakes callipers (both rear brake and parking brake). The second time, I have improved my technique for putting back the wheel without any effort (without having to use a strap around the rear rack to lift the wheel or having to play with my foot or whatever I find useful... it's damn heavy with a 4mm tube + knobbies tire) ; I actually lift the front under the skidplate until the rear wheel slightly touch the ground so that you can still remove it but can put it in back in place the easy way (holes are aligned and you just have to slide the axle bolt in and maybe have to move the wheel a little tiny bit).

    FRONT WHEEL :
    Like @windowto (but not only of course) has shared earlier, it's possible to get the wheel off without removing the callipers by simply twisting the fork tubes. A friend did it this way said, so I knew about it. Personally, I have decided to remove the front left calliper during tires replacement because of the ABS sensor. Less of an issue at the rear... but my dealership had instead decided to remove them when he has replaced the rear wheel (spokes issue). I was insisting I had done it successfully but he told me that was so easy and better to remove the callipers within seconds... well, he's the professional after-all :).

    As I was next to him in the workshop, I know that, like me for the front left calliper, he put back the same bolt. So I don't know if this applies to the rear calliper as well. I should read the manuals... "replace bolts callipers with new ones" is mentioned even on the user manual actually! pooh! :)

    Anyhow, because it is still fresh (I have removed and put back both wheels a few days ago), I remember that the wrench socket for the front calliper bolts is M14. I'm very careful with the front wheel (like... with rotors) and I've inspected the bolts threads because one of them was not easy to unscrew by hand so freely (and I knew why). The reason is because I had put blue loctite when I put then back the first time a year ago or so.

    But I also know that the first time I have removed them, there were kinda difficult to unscrew (in comparison, much easier than the M18 handlebar'end bolts) and I saw what looked like red loctate "print" on about 2cm (like on the M18 handlebar'end bolts) or at least, loctite which was put at factory.

    Actually, I was more worried about the x4 m12 bolts which pinch the fork bottom onto the axle bolt. I gave a look at several bikes at some dealerships... and I haven't seen one symmetric installation (understand : left side was more pinched than the right one... and sometimes, one fully pinched and 1mm clearance on the other side).

    ****
    edit :
    EXTRA : If someones knows why... I would be very interested in knowing why manufacturers put a secured screw for the rear axle bolt are not for the front ?!? Stupid to me but maybe there's a reason I don't capture yet... :p

    ****
    I don't have a mechanic background like you but as I only work on the bike's sensitive parts with little wrenches, the applied force is relatively moderate. I think the "click" mechanism of my little wrench handle would give up before a M14 thread is stripped but I'm always careful anyway as s... can always happen. It would be a disaster on such parts. :p

    Again, thank you very much for having brought this to our attention. Honestly, I won't replace these bolts and I don't expect Honda or a workshop to replace them if they are careful enough to decide to remove the left calliper to protect the ABS sensor.

    I have put a 2mm "blue loctite" line along the full length of the thread. I know some put two little dots with a white pencil to ease "pre-flight check". Clever.

    Next time, it is highly probable that I will apply @windowto's (and others) technique to remove my front wheel. :D
  12. Stromcat

    Stromcat Been here awhile

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    If reusing the Honda caliper bolts,what torque value should be used on reassmbley?
  13. kokos79

    kokos79 Nomad

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    Rear axle is usually a big bolt in essence, hence the security/cotter pin. Front axle is usually a tube, which gets clamped by the two fork legs, so no need for bolt (just there to keep things aligned) or cotter pins.


    Trust me, steel bolts can screw up any aluminium threading just like that, torque wrench or not.
  14. ya(x2)

    ya(x2) Long timer

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    I have applied the wet finger approach with blue loctite but it is probably not the expected answer, I know.

    I would be much more worried by a 10€ front brake lever bought on Aliexpress, this for sure...
  15. ya(x2)

    ya(x2) Long timer

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    Not your fault as you don't have yet your AT... but you didn't get it right actually... I don't talk about cotter pins! :p

    I'm talking about what looks like a embedded CIRCLIP before the SCREW's thread (Like "stop screws" with plastic ring but this one is a thin metallic ring instead) making it is secure in the sense that you cannot even start to screw it by hand. Don't have a picture sorry but such bolt cannot got unscrewed because of vibrations, this for sure.

    The one for the front axle bolt is simply a normal one.... so I wonder WTF they didn't put a secured one also. I know there are 4 others bolts to pinch the fork on the axle but still.
  16. kokos79

    kokos79 Nomad

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    Fair enough, but the reason is the same. Rear axle is a bolt, front axle is a clamped tube.
  17. Motociclo

    Motociclo Long timer Supporter

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    Honda recommend replacing these bolts after essentially each use. Very impractical.
    I don't feel they are "torque to yield" bolts.
    I have reused mine a number of times, 5+, with no effects. Threads are fine, no measurable stretch. Measure them first time I removed them after reading Honda recommendation. Maybe a risk, but unlikely.
    I feel they are a 10.9 grade bolt given the torque required.
    I use the recommended torque specs to tighten them.
    Just my 2 cents.
    michaeln and simmons1 like this.
  18. ya(x2)

    ya(x2) Long timer

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    Yep, front axle is clamped thank to 4 bolts but it is also screwed. The one at the rear won't got loose by itself which is not the case at the front. For added security, I'm simply wondering with they didn't put a stop screw in front also. Well... still wondering... but I guess 4 bolts are enough for Honda even if the axle tube screw has gone on the road. :)
  19. kokos79

    kokos79 Nomad

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    All I'm saying is that the screw/bolt on the front axles is there only to help align forks/get the axle in the correct position. It is not holding the axle in place, and there is nowhere for it to go. The clamps keep it from rotating and from moving laterally.

    The rear axle not only has to stay in place laterally and not fall out, but also longitudinally by clamping the chain adjusters and the swing arm in place. Rear axle needs to provide clamping force, whereas the front axle doesn't.
    ya(x2) likes this.
  20. windowto

    windowto Long timer

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    I agree, on the front axle the nut has to provide the initial pressure (clamping force) on the bearings and bearing-spacer for the installation. Once the pinch bolts are tightened, you could lose the nut and keep on riding. :ricky You will still need the nut for the next installation in order to squeeze the whole assembly again. If you lose the rear nut, you are not going anywhere...:muutt