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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by elkgrichard, Sep 19, 2014.
Then quit reading, posting and go crap somewhere else.
You've apparently never flown in an airplane before! There are no good airplanes. Only ones that haven't crashed yet.
No, you throttle-steer instead.
Actually I have a PP-SEL.
You'd be more believable if you used the right acronym.
Here´s an example from the EU: Germany. Where they are such a nanny state, that you are only allowed to buy and fit the approved tyres for your moto. Could be just 2-3 different brands and models for each bike. Or you can buy anything, but the shops are not allowed to fit non-approved rubber. Been this way for at least 20 years. Then again, they still have free speed sections on their Autobahns, even though those are getting shorter and shorter... But anyway, that is one place, where I would not want to try out, what happens, if you are involved in a serious accident, where there is serious damage to other parties, and your motorcycle has non-approved tyres. Especially if losing control of your motorcycle was in any way a factor in the accident. (and I know in the US everything is different).
My dad used to tell me; "if you argue with an idiot, there are 2 idiots in the conversation".
There's some who can't simply concede it's a viable option, and there's some who can't simply concede it has some limitations.
They're compelled to quantify, or dance around it without actually saying it.
They're drawn to each other like a moth to a light.
It seems to me the key to peace, love and understanding on these forums is to state one's opinion without worrying about whether others agree with it. It's an exchange of information and experiences. Not a trial where one person is guilty and the other innocent. My 2 cents.
Ya, kindof odd really. I mean by definition darksiding is a viable option. There are thousands of people who have been doing it, trouble-free, for decades. I personally think it's an abomination, but to argue that it's not a viable option is ridiculous; that ship sailed 20+ years ago. How can it not be a viable option when people all over the place are doing it on the regular?
Likewise, arguing that there are no limitations presented as a result of using a car tire is equally silly. In fact, it would be just as ridiculous to argue that a motorcycle tire doesn't have limitations. Everything is a compromise. If you never needed wet traction, tires would have no tread. If you add tread, you reduce dry grip. That is a limitation. The shape of a motorcycle tire gives it pleasant handling dynamics, but it also reduces its ability to distribute the load over a larger surface area, resulting in reduced durability compared to a car tire. That is a limitation. A car tire on a motorcycle will experience greatly reduced traction and stability if enough lean angle is introduced that causes the sidewall to come into contact with the pavement. That is a limitation. A car tire is considerably heavier than a motorcycle tire, resulting in increased unsprung weight, which in turn negatively affects suspension dynamics. That is a limitation. If you run a car tire and have a failure while travelling, it could be a challenge to find a shop willing to change the tire, or even to find the tire needed. That is a limitation. Motorcycle tires are typically much more expensive than car tires, even as they only last fractionally as long. That is a limitation.
Regardless of what side of the argument one falls on, 100% of absolutists are bereft of logic regarding the subject at hand.
And yet humor is lost on you, even humor that is actually analogous to your opinion regarding not using a product out of its intended design.
I don't remember anyone in this thread claiming that using car tire is "no limitation" compared to moto-specific tires.
I know it's hard to grasp the wet/dry/traction/tread/lean angle/contact patch limitation without experience of operating a motorcycle with car tire mounted on the rear wheel.
But, it's only a limitation when you don't experience it and not willing to practice & get used to the handling difference.
Just like any other new motorcycle tire that you mount into your bike;
for the first few hundred miles, you need to scrub the chicken strips, you need to learn how the new tire behaves in acceleration, corners, in braking, all around..
or maybe you just go full hero from the first miles?
Weight difference, yes; but most car tire users are not so concerned about the weight difference.
Failure in tire, that applies to any type of tire, on any bike, not just limited to car tire.
Challenge to find repair shop willing to change a car tire?
IME, it's the opposite: motorcycle repair shops are not as common as car repair shop.
Most gas stations are more willing to plug a car tire over a moto tire.
Yes they all have limitations...no doubt about it. Very well said post. They just are not as limiting or different as most can believe. That is what causes the problem and discussion. And when naysayers make statements that are not based on actual experience and/or proven evidence...and are basically wrong...hang on here we go.
Like stated, it really doesn't matter as it was all discussed and regurgitated many years ago. So hopefully tidbits of actual useful info will begin to filter in before to long.
A lot of the actual tire information out there now is a bit dated. What 205/50/17 tires are people using now? I am running a Riken Raptor.
I suppose obijohn or whoever would wonder why an experienced, relatively rational commercial pilot would willingly bail out of an airplane just for FUN! I did it 600 times it was so much fun! Even had a "square" parachute that flew like a glider. Maybe that's what made me crazy enough to put a car tire on the rear of my scoot!
I'm running same tire and size on FJR.
What tire pressure? I am running 39 when 2up and 36 when solo. Someone suggested lower so I ran at 32 for a day. Turn in became easier but I didn't like the 'feel' when holding a line at a moderate lean. Full lean was fine. Went back to 39 for 2up the next morning and it felt better.
Aren't we actually talking about limitations outside of how 99% of people actually ride? In other words, a car tire may have slightly less traction at extreme lean angle, but it's a moot point for 99% of riders as they never experience those lean angles.
So, track racers shouldn't use car tires as they don't corner as well, but street riders will never notice a difference. Am I wrong?
You are exactly correct.
Additionally, track racers shouldn't use PR 4's either...but naysayers just cant recalibrate the brain to grasp the concept.
But then 'someone' will state that they would have had an accident if they had a CT on their bike because they would not have been able to lean their bike in an evasive maneuver. I have heard that one several times. Although there are MANY examples of CT bikes leaning to hard parts and even actually setting time records on the dragon....they just cant believe it. Their minds have a hard time believing what they are seeing!
Ah hell, while were at it....based on one of their most often used arguments/theories, " It is not what the engineers designed it for and the manufacturers do not recommend it', I guess we all are going to have to quit using diesel truck oil in our motorcycles.