The decline of stand alone sat nav

Discussion in 'GPS 101 - Which GPS For Me' started by iggs, Mar 18, 2015.

  1. Bengt Phorks

    Bengt Phorks Been here awhile

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    Trusting your survival to one piece of electronics is never a good idea. You have heard of Murphys Law.
    What about redundancy? If I crash and break the phone I would be stuck without a GPS and a IP68 rated phone. Do you carry a spare phone? I do + a PLB and GPS.
    The last group ride I went on turned into a monsoon mudfest and more than one phone was damaged by the weather and all of them were in backpacks.
    So I can drop my $800.00 iPhone in the toilet and it will be just fine? Can I replace the battery in it when out on the trail?
    There are plenty of phones out there that are not IP68 rated and the uninformed or inexperienced owners will inadvertently destroy their phone because some one told them nothing could go wrong.
    I am well aware of the technology of today and I have repaired my daughters iPhone several times but anything mounted on a dirt bike is in a hostile environment and I'm not a huge fan of mounting expensive electronics in harms way. That said it's your phone so you can do whatever you want with it. I use a GPS and keep my phone sealed up in my backpack and use my satphone (IP65 rated) to make a call or text or email my GPS position if I need to. Redundancy.
  2. chasbmw

    chasbmw Long timer

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    I have used various iPhones for navigation, for the last 5 years, they also supply me with a camera and Internet, so that is the opposite of redundancy, it's multi tasking and really reduces the number of gadgets,charging cables and electronic crap I would want to take on my typically 4-5 week trips.
    The only downside of using a phone is that under very hot conditions the phone will turn the screen down, it doesn't happen very often and I can work around it.
    The other advantages are not paying £400-500 on a gadget that only gets used when I'm on a bike and the really big advantage is not having to wrestle with clunky Garmin software.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  3. scootertrog

    scootertrog Jedi Fart Master

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    Regardless of which GPS I may bring along - I ALWAYS have a paper map to fall back on.
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  4. DaMonk45

    DaMonk45 I B Da Monk

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  5. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

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    Actually, yes I do carry a spare phone. It stays in my tank bag in a water proof case, and in a dry sack on top of that if it looks like I might get rained on or dunk it in a water crossing. Because like you I agree that redundancy is a good thing. The one on my bars acting as a GPS is IP 67 rated, so I really don't do anything to protect any more then I ever did with all the stand alone GPS's I've used before. I can drop my $200 phone (who the hell pays the actual retail price for a phone?) in the toilet and it will be fine aside from the fact I just dropped it where I shit and piss! :lol2 I can, and do replace the battery all the time on my S5. I also have free insurance to cover my phone in case I do destroy it, which I've used, cost me a $25 deductible to get a new S5. Can you do that with your stand alone GPS? I've destroyed more stand alone GPS's then I have cell phones over the years and considering I carry the cell phones around a whole lot more that says a lot.

    So yes, I question your knowledge of the technology as an iPhone is a piss poor representation aside from being a trendy bit of hardware. The fact you don't know that you CAN change the batteries on a cell phone also lends credence that you don't have knowledge of the technology. As I said before, your ignorance of the tech is your main reasoning and is not based on fact.
  6. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

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    I'm probably flirting with disaster, I haven't carried paper maps in years. But I do carry spare levers, and have never used em. :lol2
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  7. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    1- poor planning is way more effective and obvious....
    2- yes, i carry two phones (with two batteries each) when i'm expected to lead a group of guys through singletrack. yes i crash. yes they crash. we also had some SPoT's, some standalone gps units, some powerbars, water, tools, and a shifty looking sweeper (hey mike!) but we did ok. every time.
    3- been there done that. we shared waterproof bags for the folks that didn't have waterproof devices, and everyone was fine. very muddy, very cold, and very happy to be back at camp, but fine.
    4- you paid an amount for a device. that amount does not make it cooler, smarter, or more waterproof, it's just the amount you paid. the device in question is what determines the waterproofness and/or ruggedness. tossing anything in a toilet is... i know you were being hypothetical.
    5- you can't stop stupid. you can try to keep it away from power lines, but if it's really stupid it will do it on it's own.
    6- five years ago i decided to try it. my phone didn't catch on fire, or fail, at any point, while on the bike. i did smash ONE device while walking through the garage. it cost $70 to replace it. that's seventy dollars, not seven hundred dollars. if a person chooses to pay more, they just pay more for the eventuality of replacement.
    7- that's cool. since the gps and smartphone can't summon ems while out in the boonies, how often have you needed the satphone to summon life saving ems ? (i'm not being a smartass, I'm just curious)
    8- two sat phones ?
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  8. Bengt Phorks

    Bengt Phorks Been here awhile

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    My daughter buys the latest and greatest phones unlocked and I just get the hand me downs. I wouldn't pay that much for a phone either. Talk and text is all I use a phone for and it's on prepaid, no contract and no monthly charges.
    Never had to call for help with the satphone and hope I never have to. For $210.00 a year (which includes Talk, text, email and GPS position reporting) it's cheap insurance. (Inmarsat Isatphone Pro 2). My wife made me get one since I ride alone in some remote places and the satphone sends out position reports by email to my wife so she knows about where I am and when I get back to the truck. Even if I was riding with another person the satphone would be beneficial because if one of us got hurt how would we get help? If there were two riders then the injured person would have to be left alone while the other rider went for help. What if he crashes or gets lost and is unable to get back to camp? You are screwed. Four people would be the minimum, the injured person, one to look after him, and two to ride for help.
    Two satphones? No, one satphone and one ACR PLB 375 Resqlink Personal Locator Beacon registered to and continuously monitored by NOAA Search and Rescue SAR satellites. If I set it off then they are coming to get me. There is no yearly service charge for the NOAA SAR. I carry the PLB on my person in case I can't get to the bike to set off the alarm. Remember that tidbit you SPOT owners that have your device bike mounted.
  9. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    thanks for the sat phone info FROM EXPERIENCE, that's pretty handy stuff. especially i like the part about emailing location info to her. that's cool. if you're riding remote enough areas, that sounds like the best, and cheapest, option.
  10. Downs

    Downs KK6RBI

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    I've giving phone based GPS another shot with COPILOT again. My biggest gripe with COPILOT on my iPhone was not being able to import routes from Basecamp into it. So I'm giving it a go this time by building a route in Basecamp then "handjamming" each waypoint or shape point GPS coordinates into COPILOT. I've done a few test runs with it and so far it's working well with each iteration of even convoluted forest service road routing the routes are almost identical with maybe one or two drag and drops which COPILOT supports. I can do two way points then zoom in and drag and drop the route where I want it similar to Basecamp.

    It does kind of suck doing it on a small phone but I'm due for an upgrade. Maybe an iPhone 6 with the larger screen is in my future.

    Or I can buy one of those small 40 dollar Droid based cheap tablets off of Amazon and go that route.
  11. DaMonk45

    DaMonk45 I B Da Monk

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    save your money for beer, get the droid
  12. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    i'm not familiar with copilot. are you saying that it can't accept routes or tracks from somewhere, and just display them ?
    do you have to manually 'fix' those routes you got from basecamp (or wherever) in order to use them in copilot ?

    i would definitely be looking for a better application, if that were the case. just the part about having to use basecamp would make me toss it all in the garbage and start over. the whole point of using smartphones as gps devices is that they have the ability make routes, very easily, without having to rely on a computer to transfer things (maps/waypoints/tracks/routes) or make things (waypoints/tracks/routes) to go explore around.

    not being familiar with copilot, i may have completely missed the point. my main goal with using good smartphone software is to make my routes/tracks/stuff easily, right on the device, and be able to import/export that stuff WITHOUT having to rely on a computer to get stuff done. :)
  13. scootertrog

    scootertrog Jedi Fart Master

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    For your iPhone, use your CoPilot for basic "Get from A to B, as quick as possible" road navigation and maybe find POI's. Get GalileoPro for your custom tracks. Trust me. :)
  14. Downs

    Downs KK6RBI

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    No thanks. I've got a droid tablet (Galaxy Tab) and am not interested in Droid for my phone. And it's a scheduled upgrade. No cost other than signing a new contract with my carrier.

    To me the whole point of using my phone as my GPS device is to remove the GPS device from the bike, not being fully independent of computer mapping/routing software which I prefer to use. I'm not hauling around a full size laptop I'm hauling around my ancient 10 inch netbook with real keyboard, usb slots, and memory card slot with a functional processor and hard drive. Takes up as much space as my Galaxy Tablet with bluetooth keyboard but gives me more flexibility. Granted the program is fully capable of having a route built on it via the phone screen, I prefer not to do that if I'm already in camp for the day when I can use the much larger screen of my netbook.

    There are ways to do it. You have to have a computer application to be able to access the file system on the iPhone so you can place .trp files into CoPilot's file folder but you have to do the same with the Droid minus the computer application to access the file system on the device. When you hook up a Droid you already have access to the files.

    You can easily build a route on the phone with COPILOT at least with my experience messing with it so far. That's not a problem. This is personal preference of having the larger screen of the Laptop to easily and quickly be able to go from zoomed out to zoomed in with high levels of detail. I have no issue with Basecamp and find it to be a serviceable program. Inputting waypoint and shape point Coordinates takes less than 5 or 10 minutes depending on the length of the track and with some minor details that are easy to fix by doing the drag and drop thing on COPILOT (you can drag and drop routes).

    I have not tried GalileoPro I'll check it out.
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  15. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    I see now. I stay away from applications that don't use normal gpx files so I'm way out of date with copilot.
    Downs likes this.