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The decline of stand alone sat nav

Discussion in 'GPS 101 - Which GPS For Me' started by iggs, Mar 18, 2015.

  1. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

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    It comes out to like $0.75 for the whole USA. :rofl How much will City Nav 2015.10 or whatever they're up to now cost you?
    #81
  2. 250senuf

    250senuf Long timer

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    Mapsource works just fine with Windows 8.1 :evil
    #82
  3. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

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    :rofl
    #83
  4. iggs

    iggs Been here awhile

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    Map source is part of an obsolete GPS system.

    Nothing wrong with using obsolete kit if it works for you. Carburettors for instance

    The interesting thing about stand alone GPS units is they became so mainstream that the British government included them in the basket of goods they use to track the cost of living. That's amazing that a navigation device type can be considered in the same way as other consumer devices like TV's

    Now they are being removed from the list because the reality is for the vast majority of people the smartphone has replaced it because it makes sense that it should. Most people who would have previously purchased a stand alone GPS now have a smartphone. Every smart phone comes preloaded with free navigation software that is incredibly advanced

    ................FACT

    Stand alone GPS units are joining the club that includes other technology products vinyl, tape, cd's, dvd's, video tape recorders, stand alone MP3 players and the cathode ray tube

    You may prefer one of the above to what has replaced it but the fact of the matter is the majority of other people don't and have moved on.

    The obsolete products are still available just no longer being developed






    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    #84
  5. NorthernTraveler

    NorthernTraveler Long time Adventurer

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    It isn't just the cost for the maps... it's the security exposure of having my PayPal account and password used and stored on the tablet - which it does by default. Oh, and my REQUIRED Gmail account too!

    I try to minimize my security exposures... I've only been in the IT business 32 years. BS and MS in Computer Science, so I guess I don't know my way around this stuff. But I worry about the exposures....

    City Nav map updates are free for me, I have a Nuvi 50LM for my van. That allows me to download the maps for free to my computers - use them for planning and creating routes. WinGPB coverts the routes to tracks, tracks go on units and don't change regardless of maps in background.

    Have unlocked R&R, MetroGuide, and Topo. Set for maps on units - all 15 of them. 4 - 276's, 4 - 498's, 3 Nuvi's, 1 - 176c, 2 - 76cx, 1 - 78.

    I tend to be a big user of GPS....
    #85
  6. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

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    So lemme ask you this, do you think twice about handing your credit card to a less then minimum wage making waitress/waiter while they take your card back someplace where you can't even see them? :lol3
    #86
  7. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    Your mother wears combat boots, so there! (picture a little face with his Tung out) Besides that you are off my Christmas Card list because you are a meanie.
    #87
  8. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

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    :rofl
    #88
  9. NorthernTraveler

    NorthernTraveler Long time Adventurer

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    More than a little off topic.

    But if you are dumb enough to hand your credit card to ANYBODY else to use you deserve everything that you get.

    And any unsecured connection for financial information falls into the same category.
    #89
  10. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

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    Sigh, I know. I made the biggest mistake of my life handing my credit cards to my ex-wife. :cry:cry
    #90
  11. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    I believe most users of the "obsolete GPS system" would probably agree with you, I do. The system works great for them. The demands of these users are for larger screens and more logical/friendly Track handling features but not a new system.

    Second statement is definitely not true, new model stand alones are still being developed and introduced. The whole question of the Thread is will this continue? I see a very small use of new systems with my customers but nothing near significant or even a trend yet.
    #91
  12. apleschu

    apleschu Chief Cat Herder

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    THIS! In fact I was using my iPhone as my primary GPS for a few years now, and guess what I just purchased another stand alone unit since NONE of the apps can load the predefined routes and can give me turn by turn guidance.

    Seriously, what is wrong with the app developers. One should think its not that much of a deal. They are solving the bigger problems and the "easy" problem to import and use predefined routes is left completely aside. Especially when you go off the beaten path and off tarmac that is one of the most important features.
    #92
  13. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    THIS! In fact I was using my iPhone as my primary GPS for a few years now, and guess what I just purchased another stand alone unit since NONE of the apps can load the predefined routes and can give me turn by turn guidance.



    Seriously, what is wrong with the app developers. One should think its not that much of a deal. They are solving the bigger problems and the "easy" problem to import and use predefined routes is left completely aside. Especially when you go off the beaten path and off tarmac that is one of the most important features.[/quote]


    ......recalculating......

    might be the reason for avoiding problems associated with imported routes. it is a source of confusion and annoyance by people that realize routes suck for navigation, in the middle of a ride.

    ....recalculating.....

    whereas just displaying the track or route, and following it, works 100% of the time.

    ....recalcu..... error... restarting from first point...

    then there are the times when it won't even recalculate the route, or pickup from the last stop.

    keep in mind I've given up on route navigation a while ago, specifically because of the annoyance with waiting 3 seconds for it to finish recalculating after a pee break.

    it's so much easier to follow along, than the voice prompts, directions, and lane sections correct.

    YMMV :)
    #93
  14. gogogordy

    gogogordy Long timer

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    Whenever the functions of several "tools" are Swiss-army knifed together, it seems that a compromise in all of those functions is part of that deal.

    I would miss the standalone GPS. And digital camera. And land-line for that matter.....
    #94
  15. scfrank

    scfrank Old farts riding club. Supporter

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    ......recalculating......

    might be the reason for avoiding problems associated with imported routes. it is a source of confusion and annoyance by people that realize routes suck for navigation, in the middle of a ride.

    ....recalculating.....

    whereas just displaying the track or route, and following it, works 100% of the time.

    ....recalcu..... error... restarting from first point...

    then there are the times when it won't even recalculate the route, or pickup from the last stop.

    keep in mind I've given up on route navigation a while ago, specifically because of the annoyance with waiting 3 seconds for it to finish recalculating after a pee break.

    it's so much easier to follow along, than the voice prompts, directions, and lane sections correct.

    YMMV :)[/QUOTE]

    -----------------------------------

    Yes. Recalculating is a problem with both apps and standalone systems.

    People forget these apps are primarily developed for car use. I bet 90 percent of car use is enter the destination and get me there quickly. How often do car users develop a route?

    Look how much more expensive 'motorcycle' standalone GPS devices are. Market is comparatively small. Need someone to develop an app for motorcyclists.
    #95
  16. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    ......recalculating......



    might be the reason for avoiding problems associated with imported routes. it is a source of confusion and annoyance by people that realize routes suck for navigation, in the middle of a ride.



    ....recalculating.....



    whereas just displaying the track or route, and following it, works 100% of the time.



    ....recalcu..... error... restarting from first point...



    then there are the times when it won't even recalculate the route, or pickup from the last stop.



    keep in mind I've given up on route navigation a while ago, specifically because of the annoyance with waiting 3 seconds for it to finish recalculating after a pee break.



    it's so much easier to follow along, than the voice prompts, directions, and lane sections correct.



    YMMV :)[/QUOTE]



    -----------------------------------



    Yes. Recalculating is a problem with both apps and standalone systems.



    People forget these apps are primarily developed for car use. I bet 90 percent of car use is enter the destination and get me there quickly. How often do car users develop a route?



    Look how much more expensive 'motorcycle' standalone GPS devices are. Market is comparatively small. Need someone to develop an app for motorcyclists.[/quote]

    yuppers.
    locus is about the best over found for doing it all, but the "route built somewhere else" thing still doesn't work well.

    because of all the inconsistencies dealing with routes, they aren't on my phone. a stand alone won't be in the future, even if routes were 100% reliable, it's just not a issue for me. the compass function sure I'd though, and displaying tracks properly, which it does nicely. :)
    #96
  17. scootertrog

    scootertrog Jedi Fart Master

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    Use a Waypoint after every road-change turn and the route should be pinned down. At least, so far with CoPilot, I have not had a route go off the intended course like my Garmin had a habit of doing. It's when you get lazy with Waypoints you are asking the routing engine to take over.
    #97
  18. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    Dah, thought the topic is "decline of stand alones & will they survive"? not what you use or why or how to use a GPS.
    #98
  19. DRTBYK

    DRTBYK All Things GPS Supporter

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    Allow me to try and shed some light on why you all have Route-frustration. First, let me just say, it's not the fault of the App Developer or the mapping software you are creating your Route in. The frustration is caused because you don't understand what a Route is and how it is "described" within a GPX file: the standard data format for describing GPS data types (Waypoints, Tracks and Routes).

    So, let's start this little tutorial with what a Route is in the GPX Standards world.

    rte represents route - an ordered list of waypoints representing a series of turn points leading to a destination. (rtept represents the route Waypoint).

    <rte>
    <name>Day 3 - Mon Jul 20 2015</name>
    <rtept lat="45.799381279559604" lon="-108.47932577133179">
    <time>2015-07-20T11:05:24.000Z</time>
    <name>MOA Parking area</name>
    <cmt>Parking area, Billings, MT 59101, USA</cmt>
    <desc>BMW MOA Rally 2015 in Billings, MT.</desc>
    <sym>Stadium</sym>
    <extensions>
    <trp:ViaPoint/>
    <gpxx:RoutePointExtension>
    <gpxx:Subclass>000024805A011F20C2040F1BB000573B4ABC</gpxx:Subclass>
    <gpxx:rpt lat="38.294713497161865" lon="-111.465697288513184”>
    </extensions>

    </rtept>
    <rtept></rtept>
    <rtept></rtept>
    </rte>​

    If you look at the above text for a bit you'll hopefully recognize the information as it relates to the Route and Route Points (Waypoints). Since we're talking about why a Route does or doesn't follow the roads we originally planned it on you need to understand that given the definition of a route (above) there must be something else going on (more information) in the GPX file that tells the GPS or Applications routing engine how to make the route follow the roads you wanted to follow between the Waypoints you defined originally. The green code above is just that. The code that is placed by the route creating application (IF ANY) goes between the <extension></extension> tags. Only routing applications/GPS that understand the application specific extension can read this code -- others ignore it.


    [​IMG]

    In the image above, "A" code is the Route Point (Waypoint) information and "B" is the extension code added, in this case, by Garmin to define the route path over the exact roads your planned in Garmin software BETWEEN Route Points. All non-Garmin GPS or Nav Apps ignore this information.

    So, when you export a GPX file from your favorite non-Garmin planning application, what will their "extension" code look like? Nothing! They don't create that code, only the Route Points, unless they also have a GPS or Nav App product that will read their specific extension-code.

    Otherwise, it is up to the receiving App or GPS to CALCULATE a route path between the Route Points you asked it to. It does this based upon the data in the map set it uses and the Navigation configuration settings you chose: Fastest Route, Shortest Distance, Avoid "this" don't Avoid "that", etc.

    So, why use Routes given their limited path data. That depends upon your need for information while you navigate. All Apps are different in what information they provide you while navigating. Many folks just want a line on the Map to follow: Tracks. But, some want turn-by-turn assistance and that data comes from Routes.

    Done for now...
    #99
  20. apleschu

    apleschu Chief Cat Herder

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    I see what you mean and yet I don't. Having been in the software industry for langer than I want to remember, I can see the decision to be made: "We are going to ignore the extensions" And yet, specifically in your example if I am the PM on that project I would be asking you: "Why? The way I see it there are routing points, in a format that we can determine. Why ignore those? We might have to ignore other things we do not know or we cannot get a description for, but the "hint point" may decide which way to go.

    So, yes, I can see the extensions being a "Problematic and contentions issue, but I cannot accept that as an excuse" And an excuse it is. As I said, having been too long in the industry, having written more code code than I want to remember.