the DR200 thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by klxrdr, May 13, 2007.

  1. steve g

    steve g n00b

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    Mr. Fixit, thanks for the reply! I’ll try cleaning it in place and see how that works. Is there anything above the jet that needs the jet to be removed to get at it? The reason I ask is that I haven’t yet seen the “needle jet”, number 8 in the drawing that Klay sent.

    Trailrider, thanks to you, also! I’ll bet it may have been a cost saving measure that didn’t work out, maybe because of the problem I’m having.
  2. Klay

    Klay dreaming adventurer Super Supporter

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    Mine is metal as well.
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  3. Mr. Fixit

    Mr. Fixit Reevaluating

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    The needle jet is the part that the needle slides in. You could pull the diaphragm and the needle and clean the whole passage with the main jet in place. Amazon and others sell jet brushes that might do the job. You could also use tiny number drills or jet reamers, but those introduce the possibility of removing metal from the jets and inadvertently changing fuel mixture by some random amount.
  4. Mr. Fixit

    Mr. Fixit Reevaluating

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    What year is yours? Maybe it changed at some point in the production run.
  5. Klay

    Klay dreaming adventurer Super Supporter

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    They're both 2001 models. We got two of them back then, I think it was in August 2001. (two new DR200 bikes) Still going strong, and it looks like they'll last a lifetime.
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  6. Mr. Fixit

    Mr. Fixit Reevaluating

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    Mine's a 2005?. I can't see why it shouldn't outlast me.
  7. Klay

    Klay dreaming adventurer Super Supporter

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    I am fully confident that both of ours will go another twenty years, for a total of 40 years. We might be putting biofuels in the tank in another decade.
  8. Mr. Fixit

    Mr. Fixit Reevaluating

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    We can hope.

    I'm pretty confident that I'm the only weirdo who has added a catalytic converter to an old DR200.
  9. Klay

    Klay dreaming adventurer Super Supporter

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    The thing gets such good mileage and there are so few of them that there isn't much carbon impact. Aviation is where drop-in sustainable fuels will make a big impact.
  10. Mr. Fixit

    Mr. Fixit Reevaluating

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    No argument. The only reason I did it was because my wife followed me into town one day and commented about having to turn the A/C to recirculate because of the exhaust smell, and at the same time I had dissected a Royal Enfield 650 exhaust in order to see if the catalyst could be adapted to a performance exhaust system for that bike. It turned out that the guts of the RE muffler & cat were dimensionally almost identical to the stock DR200 muffler, and the various bits and pieces worked out.

    Won't change the world, but it was a lot of fun making it work.
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  11. Mr. Fixit

    Mr. Fixit Reevaluating

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    PXL_20210718_201204595.jpg
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  12. jrogers110

    jrogers110 Adventurer

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    Speaking of catalytic converters, does the stock DR200 have one? If so, what was the first year that had them.

    Thanks!
  13. Trailrider200

    Trailrider200 Long timer

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    no! zero reason to install one unless it is fuel injected
  14. jrogers110

    jrogers110 Adventurer

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    Thanks-- not looking to install one. I'm thinking about getting a DR200 and wanted to avoid any catalytic converter years. Good to know that there are none to avoid on that front.

    Some background to set up my next question: I own a TU250, and I'm fine with the power it has, even on the freeway. This is likely because I have no problems revving the engine to get the power needed. Unlike some riders, revving the engine to be in the maximum power band (7,500-8,300 rpm for the TU) causes me no stress. In windy conditions, I run in 4th gear (I have stock gearing) for hours at 8,000 rpm (I installed a tach) with no issues. As reported by the TU250 gurus, that engine is virtually indestructible and there is absolutely no wear or tear associated with high revving over the very long term. I don't feel like the engine is straining or going to explode.

    I assumed that, at 200cc, the DR engine would be noticeably lower in power than the 250cc TU. However, looking at the dyno chart for the TU in this article and the dyno chart for the DR in this article, it appears that the power is near equal between the two engines. Even the torque is pretty close. Surprising, given the difference in displacement. Given that the DR weighs 50 lbs less than the TU, I'm thinking that, if the dyno numbers are correct and comparable (given that they were done by different organizations), the DR might do as well (maybe better) than the TU in all kinds of riding.

    So, my question is: Does anyone have both the TU and DR and can speak to whether they appear to have roughly the same amount of power? Since, as explained above, since I'm OK with revving it to the 8,200 rpm needed for maximum power, would the DR have about the same highway drivability as the TU?

    I know many have spoken here about the speed a DR can do on the freeway, with all the caveats about wind an uphill grades. But how much wind, how steep of a grade before you can't go 65 mph? That's a hard question to answer, but since I have a good sense of what the TU will do under various conditions, if someone could confirm that the DR and the TU are about the same, that would give me a much better idea of what the DR is like.

    If a DR200 really does have about the same riding characteristics as a TU250 (due to similar power, lower weight, or a combination of the two), I'll be fine with it and more confident in buying one.
  15. Trailrider200

    Trailrider200 Long timer

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    motorcycle consumer news testing

    0-60 mph
    DR 13.62sec TU 12.49sec

    1/4 mile
    DR 18.37sec TU 17.88sec

    HP
    DR 13.29 TU 15.62

    Ftlbs
    DR 9.55 TU 12.00

    see my posts about better head LT230E to install.
    aftermarket muffler and jetting really wakes up the DR. even just drilling out the EPA baffles in the oem muffler wakes it up.
  16. jrogers110

    jrogers110 Adventurer

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    Great-- thanks for this info. Does it come from a head-to-head test, or are you combining the data from separate tests in MCN? I ask because the result is interesting-- the DR has 80% of the displacement of the TU, but 85% of the horsepower. Thus, the DR would appear to have a better hp/cc ratio.

    Also, the DR also has only 85% of the weight of a TU. So the DR has 20.918 lbs/hp while the TU has 20.999 lbs/hp, meaning the DR has a smidgen less weight for each horsepower to carry. However, in the 0-60 and 1/4 mile, the DR performs 9% and 3% worse. Maybe the performance times are hindered by knobby tires on the DR?

    Anyway, it would appear that the performance is fairly close. With some of the "wakeup" mods you outline, perhaps the difference would narrow, but I think even stock it's probably close enough. My guess is that there's no noticeable "seat of the pants" difference in performance between these two bikes.

    Background for the next question: For various reasons, I'm interested in low seat height. I'm not short (6'1", 34" inseam), I own and regularly ride a KLR650, and have a dedicated dirt bike with a 36" seat that I can handle just fine. So it's not that a low seat height is critical, I just want to try trail riding with a low seat bike, and the DR200SE and XT250 are the lowest made at 31.9".

    My question: The seat height went up a little with the change to the DR200S model in 2015. What caused the seat height change? Just more foam in the seat for comfort? Different seat pan? Change to the subframe? There was no change in the ground clearance, so I suspect the change in seat height didn't come from any change in the suspension.

    Again, I understand that it's not a big difference in seat height between the two, and I'm probably being stupid to care about it. But for various reasons, I'm keen to get the lowest I can. Thus, I'm interested as to what caused the change and how reversible the change is.
  17. Klay

    Klay dreaming adventurer Super Supporter

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    Another reason not to run a cat is heat. I can throw saddle bags over the heat guard on the stock muffler and they don't melt. I imagine a cat would get much hotter.
  18. mj15

    mj15 Been here awhile

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    You may want to consider that, unlike the TU250, the DR200 has no counterbalacer in the motor. Sustained high rpm won't be as pleasant, and shifting to 4th and running 65mph, will probably have you running near the rev limiter (10k rpm +/- a few hundred rpms depending on info source). There's a pretty big ratio jump from 4th to 5th. If you don't weigh much, you could change the gearing a bit. It's a great bike, but not great for sustained running at 65mph. It can do it, and it will take the abuse, but you'll have to work for it. On flat roads, with no headwind, it's pretty good at running 60-65. I'd say it runs about 7300 rpms at 60 in 5th, and probably close to 8000 at 65
  19. jrogers110

    jrogers110 Adventurer

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    Interesting-- thanks for that information. I didn't know there was no counterbalancer.

    Also interesting. I feel that the TU has absolutely spot-on gearing. I've not looked up what the jump is on a TU, but 4th on that bike is perfect for wind/uphill grades and 5th is perfect for flat, no wind, and/or downhill grades. I might look up the ratios to see how they compare to the DR.

    I also have a LS650 (Savage/S40), and I feel the gearing on that bike is perfect as well. So, I tend to trust Suzuki to gear a bike correctly.

    I weigh around 210 fully dressed for riding.

    In my experience, often times you also have to work to keep the TU at 65. You have to shift depending on the wind/hills, and even then there are plenty of times it struggles to hold 65 mph. I'm ok with that as I find that kind of "work" to be fun. Kind of gives you something to do as you while away the hours on the super slab.


    That's perfectly acceptable to me, and I don't consider any rpm below 9,000 to be abusive in any way.

    I guess the only performance question I have now is if I would find the jump between 4th and 5th is too big and if the lack of a counterbalancer means the vibes would be uncomfortable. Probably no way for me to really know the answer without just riding one, but I don't really have that opportunity so trying to figure it out as best I can absent a test ride.

    I'm guessing I would be ok with both as I'll probably be ok with the high rev range and I have (and really like) a Buell Blast that is a 500cc single with no counterbalance and don't have a problem with it.

    Thanks again for the info-- very helpful to me.
  20. mj15

    mj15 Been here awhile

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    4th seems more like a bail-out gear, than a small adjustment, if that makes sense. I wouldn't say that your faith in Suzuki to get the gearing right is misplaced, it's actually pretty good, but there's only so much to work with here.

    My silly exploits with these motors are well documented in prior pages. I've modified them in ways that are totally impractical for most rational people.

    My 200 has the following:
    - 6 speed transmission
    -218cc 10.5:1 piston
    -Higher lift cam / HD valve springs
    -28mm slide carb

    The 6 speed helps a LOT, but isn't something most will bother with. For me, this pretty much fixes my gripes with the gear ratios, and maximizes what the engine can deliver. In brief, I've set the sprocket ratio such that 6th is within 1% of the original 5th, and this places the new 5th gear ratio halfway between the original 4/5th. I spend a lot of time in my new 5th gear. Again, not practical for most, as it requires a full teardown, minor machining of the crank, and a different gearset. If you can do it yourself, it's probably only $150 in parts, but if you can't it's not practical.

    As far as overall durability of the engine is concerned, you'll never break one with the revs available with the stock rev limit and cam lift, provided you change the oil and keep the valves adjusted. I've run them in 24hr races with an extra 1500 revs and a lot more lift and compression than stock.

    Vibration isn't exceptionally high in the DR motor, but any single spinning high revs for long periods is bound to grow tiresome.
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