The Future ... ?

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by Scooterwolf, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. assking93

    assking93 n00b

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    Nope. "The future" is still not coming even in Taiwan.
    The most popular e-scooter we got here in Taiwan is called Gogoro ,with the largest spread battery rental system in the market.
    They have about 500 battery exchange station and 120,000 batteries in the whole system , which cost them 3 years to expand.
    Still, leave the west coast urban area 50km & you're pretty much f&#ked.
    Yes it has a claimed range of 100km with 2 charged batteries, but they won't tell you it will only made it if you keep it under 30km/h without up hills and no redlights.
    Also , they won't tell you that you will pretty much never had chance to get any fully charged batteries in peak time.
    There's simply not enough batteries for the users and not enough range to leave the urban area.
    It would be worse for user self charge system like Kymco Ionex with the charging time.
    If your daily commute is not short range & slow speed, a petrol burning thingy might be the better choice for now.
    #81
  2. vortexau

    vortexau Outside the Pod-bay

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    Honda plans hybrid and battery swap electrics

    Honda break new ground with Hybrid Scooter

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    "Using the Honda Mobile Power Pack, offers the option of removing the battery from the vehicle for charging, as well as the possibility of upgrading the battery options in the future, as technology further advances in this area.
    And, of course, having spare batteries on charge, thus the rider can simply swap the batteries in and out as they see fit depending on charge state.

    Honda also unveiled a newly-developed hybrid system designed for motorcycles. This compact hybrid system employs a high-output battery and ACG starter to assist the engine and enables the PCX Hybrid to realise a “torqueful” riding performance. The Honda PCX Hybrid, like the Electric, is scheduled to go on sale in 2018 in the Asia region including Japan.
    "

    Removable battery packs is what I use with my Ego 56V cordless mower and brush-cutter. Presently I have interchangable 2.5, 4, and 6 AH lithium battery packs for the pair of Ego garden tools, and a pair of 4 AH 36V battery packs for the smaller Certa 36V cordless mower.
    I also have some cordless power tools which share a single battery pack.

    We currently (pun intended) have both a Dyson and a cheaper Kogan-brand cordless vacuum cleaner which my wife prefers to the big corded floor-rolling Dyson.

    I do not forsee any vacuum cleaners powered by internal-combustion engines becoming available for purchase by the general public any time soon.

    The thing about progress is . . . . . . what your grandparents (or great grandparents) were familar with is unlikely to match up in your own life.


    Mayor of San Juan, Puerto Rico Bans Horse-Drawn Carriages

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    (photo above) Spooked horse collides with motor vehicle in midtown Manhattan
    #82
  3. vortexau

    vortexau Outside the Pod-bay

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    Top 10 electric vehicle myths busted

    Have a read through to see if your favorite EV myth is dealt with here. Of course the details here mainly relate to 4-wheel EVs.

    Myth Number 8 relates to the enviroment:
    "The transport sector is one of the fastest growing sources of emissions in Australia, increasing 47.5 per cent since 1990 and projected to rise a further six per cent by 2020. However if Australia were to shift to 100 per cent EVs, operating on renewable electricity, this would eliminate 6% of Australia’s greenhouse gases."

    "An EV charged from a renewable power source produces almost zero emissions."

    " . . . increasingly a number of manufacturers are also moving to manufacturing processes which have less impact on the environment. For example the BMW i3 (made in Germany) is manufactured using wind and hydroelectric power. The vehicle itself is also up to 95 per cent recyclable."
    #83
  4. JerryH

    JerryH internal combustion rider

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    " We've polluted the planet on a phenomenal level" That is unfortunately true. But over 90% of it is land and water pollution, and that's the kind that sticks around for a long time. Those windmill farms and solar arrays are land pollution/environmental damage. So is all the development that has completely destroyed the area where I grew up. And along with that development came more people, more roads, and more cars.

    Six thousand mile oil changes? Not with any internal combustion engine. With a maxi you might get away with 3000. For a 125 I wouldn't even consider going past 1500, and did mine at 1000. It's a 5 minute job and a qt of oil. And it can double your engines life. For ALL cars and light trucks it's still 3000 miles if you care anything about your engine. Most cars/trucks today die an early death due to a lack of maintenance. Most riders seem to care more about their vehicles, but even they seem to be trying to get away with less and less maintenance. Yes, electronic ignition eliminated the simple maintenance points required. But it brought along it's own problems. And nothing will ever eliminate the need for the 3000 mile oil change.

    Should this thread be in the electric motorcycle forum?
    #84
  5. CanineCombatives

    CanineCombatives the sound of inevitability

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    It's cute you like changing your oil that much Jerry but dont make the mistake of thinking it's necessary, especially with high quality synthetics.
    #85
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  6. TTorpedo

    TTorpedo Been here awhile

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    The "need" t to have proprietary systems will kill all this battery swap-able systems. ...that until they can get together and agree on a standard
    The existing network of petrol stations will welcome the swap business.
    Any company can invest on R&D build and sell battery's on their own for the same standard. And not just for brand X vehicles, or even limited too just vehicles.
    The resources being poured to this nonsense.. are cringe worthy. Who will buy in to this? There is only one Apple for a reason.
    #86
  7. CBRider

    CBRider Been here awhile

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    That statement is just not true.

    Many cars/light trucks now have a 7000 mile recommended oil change interval, and they last a long time. My Ford Ranger has 130,000 miles on it with nothing but 7000 mile oil changes and routine maintenance. It will probably make 200,000 miles. I sold my Ford van with 165,000 miles and it was running like new, even had the original brake pads. And the oil was changed at 7000 mile intervals.

    My 2017 Honda CB1100EX has 8,000 mile oil change intervals and 12,000 mile valve checks.

    Be honest with yourself. I remember when I first started driving in 1970 a car with 100,000 miles was junk. Almost every part was worn out. I know you like the old stuff, but it is simply not true to say that old cars or motorcycles would last as long as recent production autos with fuel injection and electronic ignition.

    Seems like your posts are all "next verse, same as the first".
    #87
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  8. Peels

    Peels Long timer

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    youve all seen the pikes overall peak record has been smashed by an EV right?



    tech is getting there. and quickly.... just not cheaply YET. I'm VERY intrigued by swap-able systems. Very much like forklifts in any warehouse. Swap and go, keep em running, minimal downtime....

    Not sure I see it happening on a big level in my lifetime though. Range right now would work for me....for day to day. Touring...not-so-much.

    If money were no issue, I would own a lightning electric bike.

    https://rideapart.com/articles/good-good-enough-lightning-motorcycles-tests-400-mile-range
    #88
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  9. Peels

    Peels Long timer

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    totally not true at all with modern engines an oil tech. 8-10,000.

    or...once a year on my old nissan frontier regardless of mileage. lol rusted to the bones, but ran to 180k. Farmer who bought it still driving it. Id bet its mid 200's by now.
    #89
  10. cdwise

    cdwise Long timer

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    We changed the oil on the Sports City every 7,000 miles give or take. Belt was replaced somewhere between every 10,000 & 12,000 miles. It had I think 88,000 miles on it when it was totaled by flooding in Harvey. That include 2 cannonballs daily riding in Houston traffic. Other than routine maintenance I did have to replace one variator and one started.

    I change the oil on the cars when I'm told it is time to do so by the onboard computer. That is considerably liner than 3,000 miles and we've got something like 120,000 miles on our 2010 Terrain. Only issues we've had had to do with the catalytic converters.

    Ones of my criteria for buying vehicles it's kind intervals between service requirements. That's one reason the BV 350 was at the top of my list when we replaced the flooded scooters. Then I see oil change intervals of 3,000 miles it pretty much goes off my list for consideration. I'm not a fan of wrenching and have no desire to do my own oil changes or anything else for that matter.
    #90
  11. Moat

    Moat Been here awhile

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    Pffft, Jerry again...:dunno Absolutely not true. Duh. My daily driver '94 Ranger has 280,000 miles - always Mobil 1, all 6,000 to 10,000 mile change intervals. Still uses no perceptible oil between those changes. Oh, and Jerry - not a single fuel injection/ECU/fuel pump/newfangled techno whiz-bang gadget/etc failure in that time, either. You spout utter nonsense, once again.

    Plenty of folks have oil analysis done on their autos that routinely show their oil is still in fine shape past 7-8,000 miles. Oil today is better. Engine materials and assembly tolerances are better. Engine heat management is better. Engine filtration and lubrication system design is better. Engine design overall is better. A whole 'nutha league than the old, cantankerous stuff Jerry is so fond of.

    CBRider - I'll bet your Ranger will still be goin' gangbusters @ 200,000 mi! Fantastic vehicles, the Ranger...

    Bob
    #91
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  12. JerryH

    JerryH internal combustion rider

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    ANY car/truck will last 130,000 miles. 200,000 miles? I know a few people who have gotten over 400,000 miles out of their car without any internal engine problems. They are enthusiasts and maintain their cars like I do. 2 of these cars are Ford Crown Vics. Because of the longevity of these cars, I bought one as a transportation and cross country trip car (actually mine is the Mercury Grand Marquis, same car) bought it with 47,000 miles on it, now have close to 200,000, and fully expect it to reach or pass 400,000. I maintain it properly. Mine is a 2006 model. The oil change required indicator comes on the dash every 3000 miles.

    I have a 1964 Ford (that's 54 years old) that still runs fine. The engine has never been apart. Because of it's age I change it's oil every 1500 miles. I put 36,000 miles on an '08 Vino 125, changing the oil every 1000 miles. It only held a qt (that's ONE qt) and would be a little low and the oil would be pretty dark at 1000 miles. It was an air cooled engine with no oil filter and ridden at full throttle most of the time. It finally ate a belt, but the engine was still fine. I have 128,000 miles on a 2002 Kawasaki Vulcan 750, and it is still in near new condition, with compression still within the limits for a new engine.

    I could get into the reasons WHY most manufacturers recommend such ridiculously long service intervals, but I won't. I don't figure anyone want's to hear it again. Just look at the difference between the Honda PCX valve adjustment intervals (every 3000 miles) and the Yamaha Majesty valve adjustment intervals (every 26,000 miles) first gen Honda Metropolitan was every 10,000 miles. Can anyone explain that?

    The fact is, the better you maintain your vehicle, the longer it will last. Ask ANY older mechanic (someone who has been working on vehicles for a living for 40 years and now work on the modern stuff) They will tell you the same thing. Even something as simple as letting it warm up a few minutes before taking off will increase the engines life.

    It's your vehicle. You can take care of it and properly maintain it, and get a lot more life out of it, or you can follow the manufacturers recommendations and get less life out of it. Since it is yours and not mine, it really makes no difference to me, other than emotionally. I don't mistreat my pet, but I have seen other's mistreat theirs, and it hurts to see it. I cringe when I see a machine, especially a vehicle, that is not treated properly. This is not a rant, nor is it intended to cause an argument. I posted it only because of how much I love motor vehicles. I'm the take care of it and repair it type, not the buy it, trash it, and replace it type. There are 100 year old motorcycles out there still running. There could be tens of millions of 50 year old vehicles out there still running. Ride safe and have fun.
    #92
  13. motu

    motu Loose Pre Unit

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    I pour a litre of oil into my oil tank every 1,700 km.
    #93
  14. Scooterwolf

    Scooterwolf Been here awhile

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    That may be true in the area where you grew up, but overall wind farms have a small impact on the general environment.

    https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/renewable-energy/environmental-impacts-wind-power#.W0j0hi2ZOi4

    "The land use impact of wind power facilities varies substantially depending on the site: wind turbines placed in flat areas typically use more land than those located in hilly areas. However, wind turbines do not occupy all of this land; they must be spaced approximately 5 to 10 rotor diameters apart (a rotor diameter is the diameter of the wind turbine blades). Thus, the turbines themselves and the surrounding infrastructure (including roads and transmission lines) occupy a small portion of the total area of a wind facility.

    A survey by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory of large wind facilities in the United States found that they use between 30 and 141 acres per megawatt of power output capacity (a typical new utility-scale wind turbine is about 2 megawatts). However, less than 1 acre per megawatt is disturbed permanently and less than 3.5 acres per megawatt are disturbed temporarily during construction. The remainder of the land can be used for a variety of other productive purposes, including livestock grazing, agriculture, highways, and hiking trails. Alternatively, wind facilities can be sited on brownfields (abandoned or underused industrial land) or other commercial and industrial locations, which significantly reduces concerns about land use.

    Offshore wind facilities, which are currently not in operation in the United States but may become more common, require larger amounts of space because the turbines and blades are bigger than their land-based counterparts. Depending on their location, such offshore installations may compete with a variety of other ocean activities, such as fishing, recreational activities, sand and gravel extraction, oil and gas extraction, navigation, and aquaculture. Employing best practices in planning and siting can help minimize potential land use impacts of offshore and land-based wind projects.

    Wildlife and Habitat

    The impact of wind turbines on wildlife, most notably on birds and bats, has been widely document and studied. A recent National Wind Coordinating Committee (NWCC) review of peer-reviewed research found evidence of bird and bat deaths from collisions with wind turbines and due to changes in air pressure caused by the spinning turbines, as well as from habitat disruption. The NWCC concluded that these impacts are relatively low and do not pose a threat to species populations [5].

    Additionally, research into wildlife behavior and advances in wind turbine technology have helped to reduce bird and bat deaths. For example, wildlife biologists have found that bats are most active when wind speeds are low. Using this information, the Bats and Wind Energy Cooperative concluded that keeping wind turbines motionless during times of low wind speeds could reduce bat deaths by more than half without significantly affecting power production [6]. Other wildlife impacts can be mitigated through better siting of wind turbines. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services has played a leadership role in this effort by convening an advisory group including representatives from industry, state and tribal governments, and nonprofit organizations that made comprehensive recommendations on appropriate wind farm siting and best management practices [7].

    Offshore wind turbines can have similar impacts on marine birds, but as with onshore wind turbines, the bird deaths associated with offshore wind are minimal. Wind farms located offshore will also impact fish and other marine wildlife. Some studies suggest that turbines may actually increase fish populations by acting as artificial reefs. The impact will vary from site to site, and therefore proper research and monitoring systems are needed for each offshore wind facility."

    - Wolf



    #94
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  15. Scooterwolf

    Scooterwolf Been here awhile

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    http://windeis.anl.gov/guide/concern/index.cfm

    "Wind Energy Development Environmental Concerns
    Wind energy development environmental concerns include, noise, visual impacts, and avian and bat mortality.

    Although wind power plants have relatively little impact on the environment compared to fossil fuel power plants, concerns have been raised over the noiseproduced by the rotor blades, visual impacts, and deaths of birds and bats that fly into the rotors (avian/bat mortality). These and other concerns associated with wind energy development are discussed below, and are addressed in the Wind Energy Development Programmatic EIS. To get more information about these concerns and access current research, please visit the suggested web sites listed on the Wind Energy Links page.

    Noise
    Like all mechanical systems, wind turbines produce some noise when they operate. Most of the turbine noise is masked by the sound of the wind itself, and the turbines run only when the wind blows. In recent years, engineers have made design changes to reduce the noise from wind turbines. Early model turbines are generally noisier than most new and larger models. As wind turbines have become more efficient, more of the wind is converted into rotational torque and less into acoustic noise. Additionally, proper siting and insulating materials can be used to minimize noise impacts.

    Visual Impacts
    Because they must generally be sited in exposed places, wind turbines are often highly visible; however, being visible is not necessarily the same as being intrusive. Aesthetic issues are by their nature highly subjective. Proper siting decisions can help to avoid any aesthetic impacts to the landscape. One strategy being used to partially offset visual impacts is to site fewer turbines in any one location by using multiple locations and by using today's larger and more efficient models of wind turbines.

    Avian/Bat Mortality
    Bird and bat deaths are one of the most controversial biological issues related to wind turbines. The deaths of birds and bats at wind farm sites have raised concerns by fish and wildlife agencies and conservation groups. On the other hand, several large wind facilities have operated for years with only minor impacts on these animals.


    To try to address this issue, the wind industry and government agencies have sponsored research into collisions, relevant bird and bat behavior, mitigation measures, and appropriate study design protocols. In addition, project developers are required to collect data through monitoring efforts at existing and proposed wind energy sites. Careful site selection is needed to minimize fatalities and in some cases additional research may be needed to address bird and bat impact issues.

    While structures such as smokestacks, lighthouses, tall buildings, and radio and television towers have also been associated with bird and bat kills, bird and bat mortality is a serious concern for the wind industry.

    Other Concerns
    Unlike most other generation technologies, wind turbines do not use combustion to generate electricity, and hence don't produce air emissions. The only potentially toxic or hazardous materials are relatively small amounts of lubricating oils and hydraulic and insulating fluids. Therefore, contamination of surface or ground water or soils is highly unlikely. The primary health and safety considerations are related to blade movement and the presence of industrial equipment in areas potentially accessible to the public. An additional concern associated with wind turbines is potential interference with radar and telecommunication facilities. And like all electrical generating facilities, wind generators produce electric and magnetic fields."

    - Wolf
    #95
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  16. MJSfoto1956

    MJSfoto1956 Been here awhile

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    We forget the "externalities" related to the industrial fuel complex -- endless spills, aquifers ruined during drilling/fracking, air/ground pollution from the production process, the occasional industrial accident, earthquakes, air pollution from the burning of said fuel, and finally government subsidies to hide those external costs (which are ultimately born by we the taxpayer). If a true EROI were calculated that included the externalities it would be pretty clear that renewables are a safe bet all around.
    #96
  17. bmwloco

    bmwloco Long timer

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    Solar is where it's at. Solor panels, solar roofing tiles. Life on panels are going higher and higher as well.

    Instead of remaking the entire system, a Grid Tie set up is best. No batteries to worry about - you just send it back to whoever sends power to hour abode. Sure you pay a monthly "connection fee" of $8-10 a month, but it beats buying batteries.

    One hurdle, and one that stopped us from full on solar. Initial up front cost. If I had to put on a new roof, it would be a no brainer.
    #97
  18. oldroadie

    oldroadie Two wheel addict

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    I expect that battery technology is on the verge of a breakthrough in storage capability. Once that hurdle is met decentralizing the power system will add reliability to electric demands by removing our slowly failing grid from the equation. One only has to look at Puerto Rico to understand the fragility of long transmission lines to extreme weather events, and like it or not we are going to see more of those events going forward.

    It’s worth noting that folks around here have a saying, “never teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.” A lot of folks have their minds already made up and no dissemination of factual information is going to change that.
    #98
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  19. JerryH

    JerryH internal combustion rider

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    Like I said, I agree with solar. But by using heat, not light. There is far more energy in heat. In fact, heat IS energy. Cold, at least above absolute zero, is simply the relative absence of heat. And AZ has heat. Probably enough to power the whole state for at least half a year, and that's using a very inefficient method of converting heat into usable energy. I spend a fortune every month 6 months out of the year cooling my 990 sq ft house, which comes from a nuclear generating station. Talk about an environmental disaster waiting to happen. There is enough heat out there in the summer to run a zillion air conditioners.

    And while renewable energy (which at this point does not really exist) is just fine for powering homes, stores, schools, offices, factories, and a whole lot of other places, my bikes and cars will be powered by internal combustion engines for the rest of my life. That's because ICE vehicles are my main hobby, and what I get most of my recreation out of.

    “never teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.” I have a poster with those exact words on my bedroom wall. At this point I see trying to develop electric vehicles as being much the same as trying to teach a pig to sing. The technology is not there to make them at all practical, and it will be at least several decades before it is. I don't believe current technology will work. It will have to be something completely different.
    #99
  20. CaptnJim

    CaptnJim Scooter Pilot

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    "Never teach a pig to sing..."

    Or, you could just make some baby back ribs and pulled pork. :-)

    Nice thing about the future: you may get to pick your path. Arguing now about which technology will come out on top years in the future may be a bit like: Betamax or VHS? Oh, yeah... neither.