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Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by Kawazacky, Jun 18, 2014.
When you quote someones post, you single them out. Kinda hard to take it generally at that point.
I quoted just the part about you saying some one was bitching. I didn't see it as bitching and said as much.
The rest was my personal opinion about brand defense versus rational discussion about tech.
I have no problem with you. Please don't create one with me.
My comments were in general form. If you took it personally that says more about you than my summary.
Okay, its a long fall from a high horse.
I disagree (or perhaps I misunderstood) what’s highlighted in red. I get the gist of what you’re saying but L3 is no less than 82% faster than Zero’s L2 and without having to create some wizardry with two sources of electrical feed. As an example, a first gen Enérgica, can charge 0-80% in a mere ~18 minutes. Leaps and bounds faster than a Zero even with a 12kW set up.
But why choose? Enérgica got it right by allowing L1, L2, & L3 so all options are available. We can definitely agree though that Zero needs to add L3 to increase riding to charging ratios and HD would benefit riders greatly with choice by adding L2 capability.
Having all 3 levels of charging plus unmatched range makes the DC charge capable 21.5kWh bikes the easiest choice when it comes to riding with less time smelling the flowers. Each Enérgica rider I’ve spoken with has shared with me that DC Fast Charging was their number one differentiator when choosing an EM. I think just about every EV/EM owner will attest that rate of recharge is much more important than all out range.
But again, why choose? Enérgica’s current bikes offer both the fastest charging AND the longest range, plus all levels of charging are on board for less than a powertanked Zero or HD. The bar has been raised because Enérgica knew that range, short downtime, performance, quality, and value are the key factors every motorcyclist looks for. If you’re not checking all those boxes, how are manufacturers expecting riders to make the switch? It takes more than just an exhilarating ride. It’s gotta meet the basic needs of the every day rider.
As so many of you have come to know me over the past 4+ years, I have understood electric’s shortcomings as well as their strengths. I’m completely open to ANY brand that checks all the boxes. I rode all of the models available to me.. from an early Evoke, to an EmpulseTT, to the City Slicker, to the Moto e inspired Ego.. and ultimately each of us ride what we like, but what we all agree on are the basics: range, time to charge, performance, quality, price.. and equally important, safety, which I strongly believe Enérgica also leads but safety isn’t as sexy to talk about, so back to the subject of charging..
Combined Charging System (CCS) is the standard going forward for charging battery-powered electric vehicles of all kinds.
How does this relate to the Livewire? Simple. If HD adds L2, they would make it SO much more compelling to purchase and ride. Why it wasn’t added from the start makes no sense.
Analogy below: (skip if you get it.)
Adding L2 fills in the gap by making use of the myriad of L2 J1772’s out there. It’s like having a bike that only runs on 87 or 91, but the stations that serve 87 have a drip rate of flow, the 91 stations have garden hose flow but are far fewer in number, and having to ride past hundreds of 89 stations that have good fridge dispenser-like flow just to get to a 91. What’s the sense in that? Fuel where you want to fuel, when you want to fuel, with the kind of fuel you want.
Small quibble: It's A standard. There is no "the" standard.
Hmm, yes I see your point KiLeR650.. perhaps better worded that no other type supports charging battery-powered electric vehicles of all kinds going forward, (updated, thank you) and would still contend that it is the standard that all others are following, but concede that old “standards” still exist like CHAdeMO to support older leafs etc, but we all know it’s days are numbered now that Nissan themselves have seen the writing on the wall. Even Tesla’s with an adapter can use CCS or have the option to use CCS without an adapter in Europe (EU Model 3’s come standard with CCS)
The sooner we get charging standardized at roadside locations, the sooner we can standardize the charging on vehicles that use them.
Enérgica & LiveWire above
CHAdeMO reminds me of D cell batteries (big and bulky) while CCS Combo is like AAA/AA’s killing two birds (L2/L3) with one stone (sorry bird) using the power of both. 110v is like the C cell that most don’t want to use and manufacturers don’t build for.
I'll just put this right here, I still have yet to ride a Livewire. I have oogled one though.
Rode the prototype, Harley Canada used me in advertising.
Where is my free Livewire?
Finally got a price quote from a dealer - $31K OTD, which includes 10% car tax, licensing, fees etc. So it's about $3K discounted at the moment.
Do you get to demo ride it? They wouldn't let me when I came in, I might try again soon. But yeah $31k why don't I just get a H2 or something for that much or an Energica. I haven't even seen one on the road yet. Probably more likely to see a McLaren or Ferrari.
I demoed them before, they had a demo event in the city, the dealerships are all in the suburbs.
I think I'll wait and see if they'll drop it to $25K, doubt they sold even a single one.
But wait, the Long Way Up is coming out soon and they will sell out quickly. By the way, who are those has been actors?
Well one of them is Ewan Mcgregor, he played Obi Wan Kenobi in the Star Wars movies. He was also the narrator for the Charge documentary. They already made 2 documentaries. I mean I guess they made the GSA popular but the Livewire is not a GSA =P
good lord, are you still at this?
I went to Barnes Harley in Langley, BC, Canada today. I counted 17 Livewires on the sales floor. There may have been more around the back.
Too expensive for me and the range is too Limited.
I still want one.
Got an interesting phone call from a dealer the other day. They invited me to demo a LiveWire. Been lurking around LWs for a while, so I made an appointment.
if you’ve been trying to demo one, things might be changing.
Sounds good. Think I’ll make my way down to my local HD dealer to test out a LiveWire. It’s the only big electric I haven’t ridden and would be unfair to fully judge it if I haven’t rode it.
I wonder how "bolt on" the suspension upgrades to the long way up livewires were to do? Per the interview with Baldy and Charley, HD put the Pan America "front end" on the live wire to make it more offroad and touring capable.