The Harley Davidson Livewire electric bike thread

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by Kawazacky, Jun 18, 2014.

  1. Bain Dramage

    Bain Dramage Been here awhile

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    And hopefully they aren't using a 120V source to charge them.

    From the Forbes article: "Harley-Davidson said owners can continue to ride the bikes as usual without concern, but they should charge them up at the high-speed chargers at Harley dealers, often for free through a partnership with Electrify America LLC."

    Probably lots of Harley dealerships along their route... :D
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  2. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    It's a startup, it has startup problems, to be fixed with a software update.

    YOUR HARLEY WILL BE FIXED WITH A SOFTWARE UPDATE. How cool/depressing (depends on the perspective) is that?
  3. RCmoto

    RCmoto Long timer

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    HD Research & Development - software update not available.
  4. cybrdyke

    cybrdyke In the Dark

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    UPDATE:
    The word today is that there was ONE Livewire that had been delivered that had a faulty plug. Because of that, HD stopped shipments and halted production temporarily while the existing inventory was checked out. As of today 10/18, all shipments are back on and production is re-started.
    Doubtful this news will make the Wall Street Journal.

    Update: A Harley-Davidson Motor Company spokesperson tells us that LiveWire production and deliveries have resumed.

    After completing rigorous analysis this week, we have resumed LiveWire production and deliveries. Customers may continue riding their LiveWire motorcycle and are able to charge the motorcycle through all methods. Temporarily stopping LiveWire production allowed us to confirm that the non-standard condition identified on one motorcycle was a singular occurrence. We take pride in our rigorous quality assurance measures and our drive to deliver the world’s best motorcycles.

    We have confirmed that this was a singular occurrence on one motorcycle. Our rigorous analysis showed our strong quality assurance measures are working as designed. The findings also reaffirmed the strength of LiveWire’s technology and product design. Production has resumed and we are delivering to dealers.


    CD
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  5. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    My perspective is that software in general can be a spectacularly beneficial technology, but it is cheapened far too often by being used just to make something "cool." Which can make it also unreliable, even a hazard, bring other unrelated consequences to bear (privacy, hacking, etc.), all for zero gain in real utility. I know how much charge I have because I looked when I parked the vehicle. When I want to charge, I charge - by plugging it in. At what point does software play a role in any of that? More specifically, why should it?

    I still remember the story about one of the fancier BMW models that had a glitch in its keyless entry software. It would allow you to enter the car and lock the doors, then give you absolutely no way to exit the vehicle - doors wouldn't unlock or open, windows wouldn't roll down. Made for some interesting calls to Emergency Services. And some broken windows.

    Too often engineers are asked, "Can we do this?" When the better question is, "Should we do this?"
  6. Mikemm

    Mikemm Long timer

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    Is this serious?
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  7. KiLeR650

    KiLeR650 tjoseph is unethical.

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    Rumor is that Charlie's caught on fire, and Ewan is finishing the trip alone.
  8. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    In every moment. There’s software in every part of this - battery controller, motorcycle controller, charger controller. It’s all code, you just don’t know it most of the time. It’s like most people speak prose without knowing it.
  9. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    I understand what embedded code is and why it's useful. I'm fine with that, because it's very limited and focused logic meant to control very basic functions. It's really only slightly more advanced than switches. (In fact it could in many cases be accomplished with switches and other rudimentary components, it would just be much bigger. And less reliable, but fixable when it broke.)

    My beef is in creating software-based "features" at a system level that are far more complex than most civilians realize, and affect a much broader swath of device functions than seems necessary on a cursory level, then short-cutting the software validation phase. All to out-feature your competition, with "features" that sound good but don't really get you much. You can get away with that in a phone app. Do it in a vehicle and any problems you might cause get much more consequential.

    Some years ago I took a job developing aircraft instrumentation at a company that was trying to break into that field. They doubled their head count to do it. Over half of the new hires were in software validation alone. The FAA knows how important this stuff is, and aircraft systems generally have multiple levels of redundancy.

    Why should a system-level feature related to Level 1 charging hobble something as simple as Level 1 charging? Not a great cost/benefit ratio.

    Here's a somewhat fantastical example of a software glitch in a life-critical system :D:



    Not being able to charge at Level 1 is annoying, not dangerous. But when software annoyances happen, one has to wonder how the more important stuff has been handled.
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  10. Monkeyshines

    Monkeyshines Long timer

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  11. RCmoto

    RCmoto Long timer

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    So, there was a bad plug on one bike, yet they released a statement saying owners should only charge them at dealers and not at home. Somethings fishy.
  12. Crilly

    Crilly Long timer Super Supporter

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    Well that was a couple months faster than I expected.
  13. Monkeyshines

    Monkeyshines Long timer

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  14. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    Yes. A bad plug should have been diagnosed in minutes, maybe a day if it was a particularly devious intermittent failure. You don't announce a shutdown unless you have at least a partial grip on what's going on. Even if a bad component crops up and you decide to check all stock, that's an acceptable reason to briefly pause production, or institute an additional 100% quality check on the offending part while you resume. If they officially shut down production there were bigger questions to answer.
  15. Ride1st

    Ride1st Been here awhile

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    Nowhere in the press release does it say that it was plug related. It says that the issue was with only 1 bike, but does not confirm what the issue was.
  16. KiLeR650

    KiLeR650 tjoseph is unethical.

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    The distinction between software and hardware is far more arbitrary and amorphous than it seems. It's like trying to define "alive" or "porn". It's kinda obvious when you see it, but gets blurrier the closer you look.
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  17. jimmy650

    jimmy650 South Canol Racing Club

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    Sometimes it becomes Mushware
  18. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    Those are literally the same thing.
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  19. Traxx

    Traxx Long timer Supporter

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    Why not, I got a recall on the engine block heater plug for my truck. "Do Not Use, may result in fire" go figure something simple as a plug. I could still drive and make full use of the rest of the the truck. Replaced the plug assembly and done. Now I can use my engine block heater in Tejas. :rofl
  20. Desmofan

    Desmofan Been here awhile

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