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Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by RedArrow, Nov 14, 2013.
No 8 track?
Not in that car. My 1972 Pinto wagon has an 8 track. I love 8 tracks. I have spent a lot of money on eBay for 8 track equipment and tapes. I can copy digital music to 8 tracks and listen to it the way it was supposed to be listened to. It is a ton of fun cruising down the road in a woodgrain wagon with the Carpenters on the 8 track.
No music was ever created to be listened to via an 8 track tape. They were the worst .Jerry. I have breakfast a couple times a week with a guy that I think is your brother. He's so stuck in the past that he's lost. To him the world ended in 1972.He wears T-shirts that I wouldn't use for shop rags,has about 10 old Chrysler project cars that will never get done and continues to pay way too much for junk that nobody will ever want because he can't afford the real collectable stuff. The funny thing is if he'd stop wasting money on the junk ,he could have some real nice stuff.I've known him since we were kids.
I was born in the past. I like the past. I think I will stay there for the most part. It wasn't perfect, but IMO anyway, it was sure better that what we have today. I have only two vintage cars, my 1964 Fairlane and 1972 Pinto wagon. It took a lot of work, but they both run fine. On my budget I just can't afford the really nice stuff. So old and drivable will have to do. They are also a ton of fun to tinker with. You can work on them with wrenches and screwdrivers, no computers needed.
Music should be listened to on either tape or vinyl records. I also like a lot of other old things. Mechanical typewriters, old film cameras, both still and 8mm movie cameras, old tube and early transistor radios, phonographs, movie projectors, reel to reel audio recorders, tube black and white tvs, rotary dial telephones, and a number of other things. I do use some modern stuff, but I'm not into it. I don't own any bikes with EFI or ABS, and never will. Even this site has a section for vintage bikes. The problem with vintage bikes is getting parts for them, not usually a problem for cars.
A fellow in Napa Valley has bought my 1965 Heinkel Tourist. Now I will get it ready- mostly cleaning, putting together a box of original parts, switching mufflers with the one I am keeping because it fits better (he gets the best one). He says he likes it the way it is with the extended tail lights, legshield packs, and other little touches and is going to ride around the vineyards on it. He has several Vespas and Lambrettas and is excited about a touring scooter. It is the best I could have hoped for. So I will roll the <--------1960 Heinkel scooter from my teenage years out of the house and get a battery for it. It is ready to go.
Glad you were able to sell it. I hope you got a good deal. It is definitely possible to have too many bikes. Mine have taken over the house.
I also enjoy vintage machines and own a few of which I enjoy riding tremendously but I also keep a few modern bikes in the stable. Once you spend some time on a new machine theres no going back to the oldschool technology. The handling,power,brakes,and overall performance is like a drug.Its easy to get intimidated by the performance and technology but to never experience it ,as a motorcycle enthusiast,is a mistake.I will admit that some of the bikes my friends have that I ride with have are way above my skill level but it doesn't stop me from trying them out and enjoying them. As far as music goes ,I'm a vinyl nut with a ton of albums that I still spin .I also have a reel to reel and a bunch of old cassettes ,never really got into CDs to much but I do have Satelite radio in my vehicles and garage because everything ever recorded is on there . But not 8 tracks,they got pitched back in the 70's .
Despite its age I expect the Heinkel has a better suspension and handling than any of the modern scooters with their bouncy engines. That is a lot of inertia and unsprung mass on the rear wheel.
Good Morning all, Have not been around for awhile. The Monsoons have left some nasty noseeums, last ride on Aero they got into my helmet while riding and left my ears in Cauliflower mode. They can really munch on you till it hurts. Today I'm going out but this time super powered bug spray!
As you know I love old stuff also.
This is another AZ neon...
Scooterboi are you baiting me. I seriously doubt that your old Heinkle has much of anything better than a good quality modern scooter. Have you ever spent any time on a new top notch scooter? Not some Chinese clone of a 30 yr old design. They are smooth,powerfull,comfortable,and quite reliable.They won't be around in 40-50yrs like yours but that's just the tines.Nothing is made to last a lifetime anymore.Build,build,build,sell,sell,sell,gotta keep the economy going. If nothing wore out we'd all be outa work.
I would take that Heinkel over any modern machine. I never got to ride it, but I have a Stella, and have no problem with the way it rides. Just the sound of the Heinkel got me hooked. Sounds like my Royal Enfield. Long stroke single just sort of chugs along. Modern scooters are cheaply made, all but Vespa are plastic, like you said, they are made to be disposable. I have been a mechanic all my life (didn't go professional till age 18) I love fixing things. I believe in fixing things, not replacing them. I believe everything should be made to last forever, with at least 100 years of parts availability. I have worked on and driven Model Ts. Very fun and satisfying. Not everybody likes over refined modern vehicles that have no character. Me for one. I find them drop dead boring. There is a reason I own 2 vintage cars, a Harley, a Royal Enfield, and a Stella. I love them. They are not that smooth, powerful, or comfortable, though they are quite reliable. They don't insulate you from the riding/driving experience the way modern vehicles do. And since most new vehicles are being built in other countries, that is not doing our economy any good. If they were being built by American workers that would be of some benefit. But so would jobs repairing them. We are building 100 times to many new vehicles. We can keep people employed in this country repairing them. And they should be simple, so they can be repaired without it costing a fortune. You can repair, in fact completely rebuild, a 1960s car for a fraction of the price of a new car, and actually have something when you are done. Something that will appreciate in value, and that can be repaired over and over again. With certain models that use oddball parts, it can get a bit expensive, but modern technology is making it much easier and cheaper to make reproduction parts than it used to be. What about airplanes? Are you supposed to buy a $500,000 single engine private plane, and scrap it after 10 years? That could really get expensive. New cars and bikes have gotten so expensive and unreliable that they are no longer selling well. People are doing the smart thing and buying used instead.
Jerry, I don't disagree with a word you said. I get pissed off when I work on a new anything and the cheap plastic panels easily break at their mounts as soon as you try to remove them for servicing or wheel bearings go bad within a yr or 2. Its ridiculous . But,I've found that a lot and probably most of the issues with reliability in todays world has less to do with manufacturing and more to do with simple upkeep. People cherished possessions in the past and took care of them probably because they busted their asses to buy them. I keep all my bikes out of the weather and regularly maintain them and still wouldn't expect them to last 50 yrs with regular use, Lets face it the old scooters were hand me down technology from the automotive,agricultural and industrial worlds and thus were way overbuilt for their intended uses so they last and last but theres no way they perform better than the modern machines.
There is a Heinkel rider in California who rides with a group of Vespa riders. He said when they climb a mountain, the Vespas all pass him. Going down the other side, he overtakes them and beats them to the bottom. If you haven't ridden a Heinkel you can't judge them fairly. The Heinkel has the engine bolted into the frame on 3 rubber mounts. A light hollow casting pivots around the drive sprocket on a large bronze bushing, and an endless chain in an oil bath drives the rear wheel. A single springleg completes this 66 year old monoshock set up. The rear suspension is much better than modern scooters. The other thing is the 55 inch wheelbase. The Heinkel will not go nearly as fast on the open road as the modern scooters of similar displacement, but I have through collision avoidance and flat tires found myself in frightening skids at 55-60 mph, and successfully kept the scooter from falling over. I have seen diagrams of one or two of the largest and most expensive scooters that have pivoting swingarms, but these aren't really scooters, they are motorcycles with the gas tanks under the seat. In most respects the new ones have to be better. But a top of the line, expensive machine from the past can sometimes have a feature that is simply considered too expensive for the market. When it was new, the Heinkel cost more than a BMW 250cc single, and twice as much as the best Vespa.
That engine was probably designed to be used bolted to a waterpump on an old fire wagon that was drug around behind old firetrucks to pump water out of streams and ponds.. Like I said earlier,its way over engineered and heavy for the job its doing in a scooter. That's why nobody in their right mind would use it today. And yea ,I can believe you could get that kind of weight rolling pretty good down a hill. I wouldn't consider that a measure of performance in any sense of the word. Its unique , its old , its quality but the sign of a great design is in how often its copied and reproduced and modernized for efficiency .You and Jerry have found your comfort zones and hell or highwater won't get you out . But I bet if I stole all your old classic machines and gave you a nice modern ride you'd fall for it.
In my case I wouldn't fall for it because I have ridden/driven both, and much prefer the older stuff. I got my first motorcycle at age 8, an old Bultaco 2 stroke, and the local farm mechanic helped me rebuild the top end. I enjoyed both riding and working on it. I grew up dirt poor on a farm, and my dad drove $200 cars. He was a farm worker, and knew nothing about cars, he couldn't even change the oil. I learned to work on them and keep them going. They were simple and strongly built, and when in good condition, extremely reliable. The old Chrysler slant six would still be a perfect engine for today. I learned to drive around age 10, on dirt farm roads, in an old Rambler with a three on the tree. The clutch was an on/off switch, the steering and suspension were worn out, and the brakes would eventually stop it. It burned oil. I learned to drive it well. And I loved being involved in the driving experience. The sounds, bumps, vibration, and smell of burning oil. You had to drive with the windows open, because there was no A/C. The farm where I lived had a John Deere Model A. Two big cylinders, and the only way to start it was to go through a complicated procedure of priming and setting the choke properly, then taking your hands and arms, and rotating a huge flywheel on the side. After about 20 tries it would start. The farm foreman told me that if I could start it I could drive it. I don't think he believed I would ever get it started. It was called a "Poppin Johnny" because of the sound it made. two super long stroke cylinders. You could pull trees out of the ground with it. And I drove it all over the farm for a long time. Starting it became easier with practice. I have built a few race cars from the ground up. I was a drag racer for decades. Decades ago I had a 1966 Triump Bonneville. I had a 1987 Kawasaki EX500 at the same time. The Bonneville was way more fun. I still regret selling it. I went looking for another a few years ago, and found the prices way above my budget. So I bought a Royal Enfield. A few years ago I got my first Harley, and it was love at first sight. I was not unfamiliar with Harleys, and getting a used one was a dream come true. The engine sounds like a drag race V8 with a hot cam. It shakes like crazy. Old technology at it's best. I wanted a vintage Vespa, and wound up with a Stella. I've had and still have a newer car and several newer bikes. Fun wise, they don't hold a candle to the old stuff. I don't care about performance. I want to ride/drive a MACHINE. something that sounds, feels, and smells like a machine. I love 2 strokes and long stroke 4 strokes. Something with a lot of character. It doesn't bother me at all that there is more effort in operating and keeping these machines going, in fact it is an expected part of the deal. The fact that so many people want a self driving electric car literally blows my mind. What kind of life is that? I'm old school, and will stay that way. In fact, the older I get, the more I love old machines. I want my vehicles to be crude, primitive, and unrefined. I want the sensations that go along with operating such machines. I want to use the skills I have learned to be able to operate and maintain these machines. I am disabled, yet I am willing to suffer a lot of pain just to ride/drive and work on these machines over the ease and comfort of something modern.
When I got my first computer in 2001, my younger brother gave me a piece of advice: don't get into arguments on the internet. Something about typing messages generates bitter differences online. I look at this message and it seems hostile and insulting. But maybe it isn't. It might be good natured joking around. I don't think there is any point in continuing this back and forth, for me anyway. So go ahead and ride what you like. Whatever floats your boat.
@scootrboi is right, of course. We're all opinionated, annoying people here, each of us has decided we're going to ride a scooter in America. Are we all nuts? Maybe, maybe not. But we certainly only agree that we like riding something we call a scooter. Hell, we can even argue about what a scooter really is. There's not much value in arguing about what type of scooter is better, when we can't and won't agree on what a scooter is, let alone what better means. Just ride 'em and enjoy 'em.
I certainly didn't intend to hurt feelings and apologize for being maybe to blunt but having been in the cycle business for so long I've encountered so many riders who have pigeonholed themselves on a particular brand or style and absolutely refuse to even try anything else. I often loan out a bike or a scooter when someone has difficulty getting a ride when they drop off a bike. Some almost wreck pulling out of the driveway because a scooter is so foreign to them. Many though come back when their bike is done and say "man ,I rode the hell out of this thing" I have one customer who used to laugh at me when I'd tell him to take one of the scooters for a ride. Then he bought a little POS. 50 cc "just for the beach"and now after about a half a dozen scooters him and his wife got matching 200 Burgmans with big crates mounted on the backs that their dogs ride in and he's sellin the Harley because it sits.
It's amazing how that little 50 for a lot of people just gives them a taste of what they really like. Then it's more, bigger, better, how many can I get in the garage, etc.
Maybe they should quit making 50's...it's obviously a gateway to an addiction for many.
I have found that even though I have bigger scooters and much bigger motorcycles, I still really enjoy riding the little 50's around.