The I LOVE THIS GUN Thread

Discussion in 'Shiny Things' started by HiTechRedneck, Nov 20, 2008.

  1. WYO George

    WYO George I have no idea

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    Well, I'm a retired LEO and was a firearms instructor at the academy as well as my department and shoot a lot in various disciplines of competition so I feel somewhat qualified to answer. If you view it as training in general gun handling and shooting proficiency then yes, it does qualify as a bit of training. If you expect gun games to be the same as combat/defensive/tactics training then NO, they are not "real world" at all. They are games, fun games that you can learn from, but they do not teach anything that I would consider "real world" in regards to tactics. They give a lot of physical skill practice, but none of the mental skills that will take you home at the end of the day.
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  2. dmason

    dmason goofball

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    This is very much my understanding as well.

    I began competing to improve skill, but also to learn a higher level of accountability in regards to safety.

    Your feedback is valuable.

    I should make a commitment to participate in some training, with the goal of being able to navigate real world situations more successfully.
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  3. NWBoon

    NWBoon Been here awhile

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    I want to caveat that training is the most important aspect of carrying a firearm. When I was a poor college student, I worked at an indoor range where we carried our handgun at work. I carried a 1911A1 without a round in the chamber because I didn’t think I had enough training to do so comfortably. Back then, I probably shot around a thousand rounds a year and had no formal training. Now, since I receive formal training on a regular basis and get free ammo, (I probably shoot around 10,000 rounds a year) I’m comfortable and confident carrying with a round in the chamber. I’ve also competed in 3 gun and IDPA matches outside of work.
  4. NWBoon

    NWBoon Been here awhile

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    Well written!
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  5. pilot815

    pilot815 Long timer

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    I carried a Blackhawk Serpa Lvl III for a few years. I actually wore one out. I never had issues with it except for the spring on the hood going out, but I could see how the trigger finger release could be an issue.
  6. 1911fan

    1911fan Master of the Obvious Supporter

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    I believe that was a Serpa.

    Another view:
  7. Chaplain

    Chaplain Been here awhile Supporter

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    Yes, I hear you about the .38 +P. When I carry a SP101 I carry a standard .38 load (not +P). These are a an easy to shoot load in the SP101, and can be fairly easily matched with equivalent hand loads for practice. And, if I switch to my old J frame air weight, the load feels stout, but will not beat up the revolver. There are numerous family members (and friends) I take to range from time to time, so affordable practice ammo (reloads) is important. And while SP101 can handle 'deerslayer' loads, I really don't like firewall loads or even factory .357 loads in a short barrel. I am thinking a 9mm would be a neat addition because it gives another option at the range. 9mm ammo is cheap and plentiful. A 9mm SP101 would have same grip, same trigger pull, same sight picture. The .22 does much of the same function; but, in addition to the very low recoil, the DA spring is much heavier to get reliable ignition. So it does not 'feel' as close to a carry load. The heavy .22 DA spring makes my girls like shooting the .357 with .38 loads in the SP101.

    And yes: practice, practice, practice. Bullseye shooting is not going to do much. Training for most of us is more a matter of mind set, even at the range. Quick sight acquisition - stance and hold that uses major muscle groups - smooth even pull through on a long double action. Also practice with one hand (you might only be able to use one someday) and practice with weak hand. etc.

    If my muscles know what to do (due to good practice habits) then I have a better chance of using maximum possible brain power to make the shoot/don't shoot decision. I read somewhere (can't cite at the moment) that the vast majority of civilian defensive uses of a firearm do not even involve a discharge. (bad guys often turn and run). And, when rounds are discharged, the mean average number of rounds fired is 2.5; so, everything is often over in seconds (at an average range of 7 FEET). LEOs have a whole other problem set (apprehension and threat management) that don't figure in legitimate civilian defensive firearm use. Soldiers have yet another set of perimeters and rules of engagement.

    However we train, that is how we will function in extreme duress. With the adrenaline dump that happens under extreme stress (auditory suppression and tunnel vision) fine motor control goes to pot, and only gross motor skills function. I have experienced this (induced during rigorous training) just once while in a live fire exercise. It is exactly as reported in the literature. It happens fast - and for me - resolved fast. That experience makes me a big fan of revolvers or DAO (revolver like) semi autos, and a very consistent, very simple manual of arms for anything I carry.
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  8. Effendi

    Effendi Been here awhile

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    We have a saying in the UK when things go wrong. When you see a disaster like the one in the video in the post following yours you look at your oppo (partner) with that sort of what did he expect look and say, “the P’s”.

    The P’s = Piss poor preparation prevents proper performance.

    In other words put some effort, preparation, planning and training into it and things do not tend to go wrong......and you don’t shoot yourself.
  9. Effendi

    Effendi Been here awhile

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    Two places I can recommend as they are attended by individuals who operate at the absolute highest level. Do not be intimidated by that, operators are trained and practice to shoot well they are not given super powers by solar radiation or spider bites.

    1. https://shawshooting.com/

    2. http://rogersshootingschool.com/
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  10. Stobie

    Stobie Mr. Motivated Supporter

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    I don't doubt this at all.

    This is the type of situation I believe The Gadget is useful for, along with the possibility of a shirt tail or drawstring from a cover garment getting in the trigger guard. The TDG device is probably as useful for professionals, or most open carry situations.
  11. kbuckey

    kbuckey Long timer Super Supporter

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    Yeah, I bought a 9mm SP101, pretty much "just because". I already had a short barrel .357 and a 4" .327. Although I generally like moon clips (I shot .40 S&W revolver in IDPA) the ones for the 9mm SP101 are just a bit too flimsy, thus making them finicky to load. I carried the .357 for quite a while, then got an LCR - which is quite a handful with full house .357s but is a lot lighter than the SP. Then I got and carry a Kimber K6S, which is heavier than the LCR, but even with 6 rounds loaded is lighter than the SP.
    We in the US have our 6P's - Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
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  12. Effendi

    Effendi Been here awhile

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    Definitely: Practice, practice, practice and then practice some more.

    Do your competition practice be it IDPA, USPSA, or bullseye and then at the end of the shoot before you go home switch into defensive mode for three magazine worth of rounds. Get yourself up close and personal to the target (7 feet and closer) and fire a mag full strong hand, then weak hand and then two handed. If your range allows and you have a friend or two you can make it interesting by having them jostle and bump you - we used to use rolled up army sleeping bags as mobile punch bags - get banged by the bag, hand strike back then draw and fire at the [paper] target. Also practice shooting sitting, laying on your fron, on your back and kneeling - because as soon as you take cover you are not stood facing the target with your weight evenly distributed. It is a case of scenarios; the more scenarios you put yourself through the less likely you are to be surprised if something does ever happen as you may have faced a similar situation during practice/training.

    What many people do not practice is barrel strikes, a pistol is generally a couple of pounds of metal and a carbine/shotgun 6 or 7 pounds upwards in weight. Even if your pistol is holstered and you simply do the act of drawing and extending to the firing position and hit someone in the face like that you will upset their day. Deliberately go square on for the face and you can cause fractures, especially if you hit with a carbine/shotgun barrel, even throat and upper chest hits can incapacitate an attacker. And that is all without firing a shot and the implications of that.

    Some thoughts on home/personal defence: Many people buy a pistol for home defence and tuck it away in a drawer and get it out once every six months, dump 50 rounds through it badly and then safely put it away in the drawer again. Firstly; 50 rounds every 6 months is not practice. Secondly; you need a plan for home/personal defence. If you cannot afford ammo, or range time then go buy an airsoft pistol for training, I'm serious, they are cheap and effective for training at personal defense distances and in most places you can use them in the back yard - set up some paper sheets, or paper plates as targets and get to it. I have an airsoft Glock style pistol and it is reasonably accurate to around 15 feet outside and a bit further in a basement, the pistol fits the Glock holster and the mags fit the mag pouch so I can go through full cycles of draw and reload and a thousand shots cost about $15 - whats not to like. With the plan, well you know your house, but you should practice moving around your house with a blue gun/airsoft pistol as if you were sneaking around tactically. Also tell the wife and kids what to do and where to hide if you suspect burglars, that way you will know where they are and will not shoot them by accident - yes it happens, drywall and wooden floors are not bullet proof. Also if you walk through a car park, or other location you think is dangerous, just think through where you would move to, what you would do, where you park your car, etc - best advice hold your car door opener in your hand so you can hit the alarm button and that will make most bad guys run away anyway. Then moving quickly back to home defense; my top tip is to have your spare car key on your bedside table so you can hit the alarm button during the night if you think there is something going on downstairs - a car alarm going off in the garage or on the driveway will make most burglars run.
  13. WYO George

    WYO George I have no idea

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    For a good at home training check out Ron Avery’s S.A.F.E. series. It stands for Sight Alignment by Feel Exercise and is one of the best muscle memory training exercises for drawing and presenting on target that I’ve ever seen. I taught it to my deputies and still practice it to this day.
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  14. BigKev72

    BigKev72 ANZAC

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    The amount of training you have is inversely proportionate to the amount of shit that comes out when someone points a gun at you and bullets start flying. There is no such thing as “real life” training. It’s just best to train as hard as you can, under the worst possible conditions. It mitigates the freak out factor when something actually happens.
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  15. Effendi

    Effendi Been here awhile

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    I will freely admit that when I was young and learning (first job) there was an incident on an island in the South China Sea, very dark o'clock, lots of jungle noises, surf lapping on the beach, people stealthily lurking and the bad men who happened to be pirates. Your hero was sneaking around outside some buildings expecting parang wielding pirates to spring out at any moment, then it all kicked off and was over in about 30 seconds. I noticed a warmth in my trouser leg region................"oh look I think one is trying to make a swim for it", so I conveniently dashed into the sea up to my groin.

    Every single bit of training and every job you are involved in builds your mental library of experiences that help with future situations. I, personally, have never needed to dash into the sea since.

    BigKev72 knows the sayings; "train as you fight", and "train hard, fight easy".
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  16. BigKev72

    BigKev72 ANZAC

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    BigKev know what it’s like to get fucking shot at. It sucks!
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  17. Effendi

    Effendi Been here awhile

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    Snap.

    On a lighter note a mate of mine calls his silver star, “the too stupid to duck award”.
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  18. BigKev72

    BigKev72 ANZAC

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    Love that. I was smart enough to only try hard enough for participation awards. (Campaign gongs).
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  19. WYO George

    WYO George I have no idea

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    Getting shot at sucks, getting hit sucks worse. I’ve been shot at a few times, but only hit once. No medals for it, just a few days off with pay until my arm was healed up enough to go back to work on light duty then a month behind a desk.
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  20. Uke

    Uke visualist Super Supporter

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    Just to further this conversation and give something to think about, perhaps the single most important aspect of training for a concealed carry license is the awareness of shoot/don't shoot situations.

    Maybe 20 - 25 years ago, as a member of the local news media, I had the opportunity to go through the training scenarios that the Houston Police Department used, at that time, for shoot/don't shoot situations. It consisted of, if I remember correctly, 8 rooms/situations one right after the other. My pulse was checked and recorded in advance, as well as after finishing. In all but the last situation, I waited too long to react and was shot by an actor (cop instructor), in the last situation I shot my partner. During the
    maybe 5 minutes of the entire session my pulse more than doubled, the perceived stress was very real.

    Keeping a clear mind and cool head when shit hits the fan is not something for which one can easily train. It must be continually considered, same as assessing the threat level for every situation you are in day and night.
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