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The Lifan engine thread

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by hugemoth, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. Pete-NZ

    Pete-NZ Long timer

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    Arn't the Chinese motors based on the CT70... where the CT90 & CT110 are a diffrent motor... bigger and heavyer built...
    I have a Honda CT110 and a Chinese 110 motor put the two motors side by side and the Honda is a lot bigger motor..

    ..
  2. fast1075

    fast1075 Not a Lemming Supporter

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    The base engine for the Honda 70 is the Honda 50. The series included both kick start and electric start versions of the 50. The engines were produced in 50, 65, and 70 cc versions. The OHC 90/110 was a completely different engine. Either engine in the ATC three wheeler series also had a hi/lo gear box, as the CT series. (If my memory serves me).
  3. WECSOG

    WECSOG Dirt Road Denizen

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    The 90 and 110 are a different engine, but the same basic design. Most of the differences are in the case and gearbox. The Chinese engines are based on the 50/70, but some of them use a combination of 50/70 and 90/110 parts. The 125 and larger engines have more changes and fewer factory-compatible parts. I'm pretty sure the case is wider as well.
  4. rover215

    rover215 Adventurer

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    So in addition to buying PNW's Lifan 125 with all the bits I need to work on my CT90, I also bought a Lifan Pony 100 (Honda Ape clone) for cheap. Impulsive whim, but I am already researching suspension and engine mods/swap in the future. I've seen one member on chinariders swap in a Honda 200cc vertical engine. He had to do some relatively minor surgery to the down tube to mount it, but it looks stock. So if anyone in the Oregon/Washington area has a Lifan 200 vertical engine (pushrod 163FML-2), let me know.
  5. rover215

    rover215 Adventurer

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    If I didn’t have the BMW, I’d have two other small bikes.

    Attached Files:

  6. hugemoth

    hugemoth Big Brother is watching you!

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    The 163FML-2 is the balance shaft version so it has the bump out for the balance shaft on the front. I had one on my Lifan dual sport for lots of years before switching it out for the non balance shaft version, 163FML.
  7. YamaGeek

    YamaGeek Skeletor sparklemuffin.

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    The engine mounting points are identical as are the footpeg mounts and in the case of my Loncin 125cc it's nearly the same width in addition to everything else being the same.
  8. YamaGeek

    YamaGeek Skeletor sparklemuffin.

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    If you go the full monty system you have two circuits. One is the 12 volt regulated AC off the yellow wire from the regulator, all it does it 'lop' the upper peaks off the alternator's voltage so you don't burn up your 12 volt incandescent bulbs.

    It most two coil China stators, you can run up to 35 to 50 watts total but your lights will dim some at idle. ( 1500 rpm~) The other side of the coil is regulated and rectified to half wave DC to charge your 12 volt battery. It's preferred if you want to run better brightness LED head and tailights.

    I much prefer using the two coil system, as I do on my 1968 C-102, it's robust and there's plenty of current overhead for turn signals and running a small phone charger or other 12 volt > USB charging systems.
  9. vertex

    vertex Been here awhile

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    I've had five, 50cc Lifan engines. Two in four wheelers and three in Honda monkey bike clones. We never had any problems with any of the engines. The steering linkage in the Chinese four wheelers eventually wore out and various parts on the Chinese Monkeys bike clones broke but the engines were totally reliable. The kids graduated to larger Street bikes. They were learning to ride on our streets in our private neighbourhood on these at seven and nine years old and I offered guests to ride them in the desert even if they had never driven before on a motorcycle. They were cheap, 500$ each, and great fun for the kids and guests. Also, they made good, small, first Street bikes for the kids to learn shifting on and use of turn signal, horn and light controls. Their 50 cc Yamaha dirt bikes, that they learned to ride on at 6 and 8, were shaft drive and only one gear. I, personally, had an original Honda Monkey bike. The quality of the metal, rubber, plastic, paint and chrome was all better but the price was 2200$ in 2000. For the guests, after a ten minute lesson in the yard on how to ride the bike, it is out to the desert they go. 1527611563224.jpg 1520101803086.jpg 1524848654636.jpg 1524848615247.jpg
    drbuzzard and Dirt Road Cowboy like this.
  10. vertex

    vertex Been here awhile

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    More Lifan desert ride pics 1527609297534.jpg 1527609300434.jpg 1527609319594.jpg 1527609228432.jpg
  11. vertex

    vertex Been here awhile

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  12. WECSOG

    WECSOG Dirt Road Denizen

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    Yes, all of the Chinese horizontal clones use the Honda 50/70 mounting pattern. That's why you have to do some adaptation to fit them in a CT/ATC90/110. But the case width is about an inch greater on the 125 and larger.
    My Jialing 125 is approximately the same overall width as my Piranha 90. But that is because the Piranha has the crankshaft-mounted automatic clutch, while my 125 has a countershaft-mounted manual clutch. The actual case width (minus side covers) is just under 4-1/2" on the 90, and just over 5-1/2" on the 125. Made it challenging to mount the 125 in the frame of my XL70.
  13. WECSOG

    WECSOG Dirt Road Denizen

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    Ok, so there's a double Zener on the AC side of the regulator.
    YamaGeek likes this.
  14. rover215

    rover215 Adventurer

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    Interesting. In the (presumably stock) photos of the engines on eBay, the engines are stamped 163FML, without the -2. That might (probably) affect fitment. I'll do more research.
    How do you like the non-balance shaft version compared to the balance shaft version?
  15. hugemoth

    hugemoth Big Brother is watching you!

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    Front engine mounting points are different but the top and rear are the same.

    The non balance shaft engine is my prefference mainly because it has no internal chains, otherwise there isnt much difference. The non balance shaft engine doesnt vibrate excessively.
  16. little foot

    little foot seriously not serious

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    great info here.
    Hittman likes this.
  17. YamaGeek

    YamaGeek Skeletor sparklemuffin.

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    My manual clutched Loncin 125 is exactly the same width as the manual clutched Lifan 100 in my Yamaha YG5, it may be that both use the same crank mounted clutch. The inner case halves are always going to be very similar in size, irregardless of whether they are counter shaft or crankshaft mounted

    [​IMG]

    This is also true of the Lifan manual and semi auto 125's without the oil cooler taps.
    WECSOG and Dirt Road Cowboy like this.
  18. WECSOG

    WECSOG Dirt Road Denizen

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    Nice bike.
    Your width comparison of crankshaft mounted vs. countershaft mounted manual clutches is interesting and good to know. The auto clutch on my Piranha is definitely wider than the manual clutch on my 125. But my point was not that the type of clutch fitted to it has any bearing on the inner case width, but that 90 (actually 86cc) vs 125 have differing case widths. The only reason my Piranha 90 is as wide as my Jialing 125 is because the clutch cover is wider. This also agrees with sources I have read elsewhere.

    Out of curiosity I just went out to my shop and measured the widths of two genuine Honda engines I have: a CT70 and a CT90. The 90 has both of its side covers on, and overall width is about the same as both of my Chinese horizontals. The covers are off the 70, so no overall width measurement there.
    But here's where it gets interesting: the width of the 70 crankcase (inner case) without the covers is the same as my Piranha 90. This goes along with what I have read elsewhere.
    But the crankcase of the Honda 90 is almost exactly 5 inches wide, or almost exactly halfway between the crankcase width of my Piranha 90 and that of my Jialing 125.

    Hmmm. :hmmmmm I'm glad we had this discussion, because I had wondered if the internals of the 125-up were based on the Honda 90/110; a hybrid of the two Hondas as it were. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case, no pun intended.

    Here's another interesting thing, though. My Piranha 90 is basically a stroked 70; it has the same bore size as a Honda 70 but the same stroke as a Honda 110. There are also jugs and pistons available to make it a 110. Of course it's still a different design from the Honda 110 (and 90) even though it shares the same stroke.

    ETA: I would be interested in a comparison between the inner case widths of your Loncin 125 and Lifan 100. I'll be surprised if they are the same, though the outside width is the same.
    YamaGeek and Dirt Road Cowboy like this.
  19. hugemoth

    hugemoth Big Brother is watching you!

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    Update on my Lifan bikes,

    Stripped the sparkplug hole threads on my Lifan 140 so installed a helicoil. Not sure of the cause but the antiseize I used seemed to make the plug difficult to unscrew. More likely just me overtorqueing the tiny 10mm x 1mm pitch plug. running great otherwise.

    The Lifan 200 is running great as is my Taotao quad with the CG 230 engine. Really love how those CG engines run.
    Dirt Road Cowboy likes this.
  20. shadetreeCT

    shadetreeCT n00b

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    Just as FYI, any time you use antiseize or any type lube/grease you need to reduce torque. By alot. If you put antiseize on your lugs and torque to spec and the lugs will snap, almost guaranteed to happen. Some one smart will chime in with the scientific reason why and hopefully proper torque information for you.
    insomnia likes this.