The Question of BMW's Key Policy

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by Effendi, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. Effendi

    Effendi Been here awhile

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    I went along to my local dealership in Fort Worth today to order a couple of spare key's for my GS. Being a good former Boy Scout, and prepared, I took along my title document with me to prove that I actually own the bike.

    Then the nice man behind the counter tell's me he needs to copy my driving licence!! Whoaa now.

    I do not let anyone copy my driving licence, passport, or social security card, period.

    In a different life I used to be in law enforcement and if you came to me and said, "hey I have just had $5000 taken out of my credit card account". The first thing I would ask you is where have you used your card and who have you given your details to. Then I would go look at that person/business.

    If I was giving you my Level 1 Personal Security (PERSEC) lecture it would include advice like, "do not allow anyone to make a copy of your primary identification documents.

    I asked the nice man, and his manager, whose policy it was and they told me that they have to do it for BMW North America. They also told me that they can be audited against it and receive a wrist slap from BMW NA.

    I called BMW NA Customer Services and was told by one girl that, "they need to see your licence so they know you can ride the bike"...............play the tape back BMW NA, you'll hear her. I asked to speak with a supervisor/escalation. Tawny, nice girl, patient, she told me that it is to verify that the key was only made for and given to the owner. I asked Tawny what her surname was, she said they don't give out their surname's. That is probably for a similar reason to the one I do not let people make copies of my driving licence.

    Now, I don't know everyone who works in the BMW dealership, I don't know their backgrounds, or if they have any criminal affiliations. So why should I, or anyone else, compromise their personal security by paying with a credit card so that the number is on file and then handing over the Royal Flush by allowing them to copy a driving licence?

    As I was typing this I just received a call from the dealership and let me say that the problem has now been sorted to my satisfaction without leaving copies of anything. I shall still be writing a letter to Bernhard Kuhnt the CEO of BMW expressing my astonishment at the risk they are placing themselves in as a corporation, and more importantly their customers by instructing their franchisee's to collect this information.
    #1
  2. Motorius

    Motorius Road trippin' Supporter

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    Don’t stay in a Motel 6. They copy my license at every location. And of course I charge my stay!
    #2
  3. NoMoreTrackDays

    NoMoreTrackDays Too young for my GS.

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    Being an accountant, I am against people taking my information without really needing it at the first place. However, I just don't really care since I am Mr. Nobody and the worst thing could happen would be a call to my bank stating there is a fraud charge somewhere.
    #3
  4. Effendi

    Effendi Been here awhile

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    I stay in Hampton's and may have been asked to show a drivers licence to verify i am the person on the credit card but, they have never copied it.

    Seriously, people, you are too free and trusting with your personal information here in the US, tell them to go away when they ask because at the end of the day it is your money that they want and it is your money that keeps them in business. When I first landed here in the US and was given my SS card the nice man told me never to hand over any primary ID to anyone other than an official agency, or live with the consequences. That along with my previous profession in the UK makes me very wary when asked and I just pointblank refuse...............they can never argue with the logic and I always get what I want to buy, or do..........remember THEY WANT YOUR MONEY.

    @Motorius , feel free to PM me all your bank account and credit card details along with a hi-res picture of your driving licence, just so I know who I'm corresponding with.......no other reason, honest!
    #4
  5. Motorius

    Motorius Road trippin' Supporter

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    :rofl

    I stopped worrying about CC fraud and license theft a long time ago. You may not think so, but everyone has your info already. With the various breaches of medical, credit agency, government and other databases, this stuff is already in the wind.

    I’ve had CC fraud on my account. Usually my issuer catches it before I even see it and tells me. My spending patterns are very predictable.

    Finally, I am fortunate enough to have the ‘means’ to actually fight any entity that screws me over and does not correct their mistakes should they happen.

    So go ride and don’t sweat this stuff.

    #5
  6. Gadgetech

    Gadgetech Been here awhile Supporter

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    #6
  7. TUCKERS

    TUCKERS the famous james

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    If you bought a vehicle from a dealership they copied your license there and then. If you test ride/drive a vehicle they copy your driving license. Every time I use a credit card I show my license....I never sign the back of a CC I write ‘check id’ in the signature space. I use my DL as my id at the Doctors and hospital. Lots of motels want to see id. National Parks require id along with your annual card.
    #7
  8. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

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    Me too, any time there has been an issue the card issuer caught it before I ever saw the charges and took care of everything. My information has been leaked and stolen so many times already there is basically no point in me spending the time arguing with low level functionaries about it. All of the times it has been leaked and stolen have been circumstances way outside my control, corporate and government level leaks and thefts.
    #8
  9. PaulBarton

    PaulBarton Long timer Supporter

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    The OP's comment was not about "showing" the DL to the individual to verify your identify but about letting them copy it and keep it "on file". In the case of the test ride, it is understandable that they want to maintain a copy while you are on the bike since you will need to have the original in your possession. It is reasonable to request all copies made be returned to you once you return the bike.

    I used to write "See Photo ID" on the back of my credit cards. I was shocked at how many cashiers would flip the card over see the comment and then hand the card back to me without viewing my ID. I found it to be quite fruitless -- the one's that requested my ID were the ones that were going to do it regardless of what it said on the back. What made me stop doing that, was I was taking the bike on a ferry to the Olympic Peninsula. My family was following a day later. I got to the booth to pay and was promptly told that they couldn't accept my credit card because WA State Ferry policy was that it had to have an actual signature on it prior to arriving at the terminal (meaning you could not sign a blank one in their presence). It also meant I couldn't modify mine. She actually showed me the new policy and it specifically said "cannot have any other writing i.e. "see photo ID". Of course, all of my cards had that written on the back -- I was able to pay cash for the ferry but decided that I would now sign the back of my cards.

    I have experienced credit card fraud but never from stealing my credit card. There was an issue from a gas station once. I believe an employee was stealing card numbers and making fraudulent charges. That got discovered pretty quickly.

    The biggest issue I had (have) was when my catholic archdiocese got their volunteer database hacked. They got all info and then started matching them up with others from the list (M/F) and submitted joint IRS returns. What a mess that was but had nothing to do with my DL or CC.
    #9
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  10. JPCollinsworth

    JPCollinsworth Compulsive Spender

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    My dealership ordered me a spare key (no chip) for my panniers and gps for my 2018 GSA. I asked him if he needed my registration or anything and he replied, "we know you, don't need any I.D".
    #10
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  11. Friz Freleng

    Friz Freleng Religious zealot Supporter

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    Ha! Well I hope the WA State Ferry System sleeps better at night knowing its completely ineffectual policy is having no effect in reducing credit card fraud.
    #11
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  12. PaulBarton

    PaulBarton Long timer Supporter

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    This was 10 yrs or so ago. Not sure what their policy is now -- I was just in the San Juan's Fri - Mon and rode a bunch of ferries -- not sure they even looked at the back. Had no issues.

    It was remarkably bad timing on my part. They had just changed to the summer schedule and "updated" their policy. Of course, the staff was freshly trained on the new policy and had it handy for any passengers that questioned it. Most likely, a month later I would have gotten through without issue -- as is often the case with ineffective, bureaucratic policy...
    #12
  13. * SHAG *

    * SHAG * Unstable

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    Let it go. Small delay to get what you wanted. It seems like they are all satisfied that you are not up to no good. Consider it a waiting period like a loan or such.
    #13
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  14. _Gir_

    _Gir_ Adventurer

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    I had a similar story with the post office. They blatantly pointed out that my credit card said in small print below the signature box "NOT VALID UNLESS SIGNED"

    "See ID" was not a signature.
    #14
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  15. LAFS

    LAFS Long timer

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    I lost my fob going to the rally. Used the emergency key the whole trip. Called my dealer he said he needed to see my registration when I came in for the fob. I have no issue with that. How else would a dealer know I owned the bike if I did not have ID to proof out the registration card I am handing him is truly mine?

    Much to do over nothing.
    #15
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  16. Effendi

    Effendi Been here awhile

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    Exactly. Mine say's "Not valid without authorized signature". They all say something similar and the merchant is within their rights to politely tell you to f*** **f, even if you attempt to retrospectively sign it in front of them.

    And I know this to be true as my wife is a senior executive VP of the credit card division of a very large bank.
    #16
  17. PaulBarton

    PaulBarton Long timer Supporter

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    The OP comment was not about “showing” the info to them but allowing them to make a copy of it. He has also since confirmed that the policy from BMW is to “verify” not “photocopy”.
    #17
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  18. Effendi

    Effendi Been here awhile

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    You may be surprised at what I know and what most career civilians have no clue about - the only people I know in the US with a similar anally retentive attitude towards personal data are my friends who are either serving or former SF. Not everyone has everything and I try to minimise my own footprint by controlling what I share and with whom I share it - notwithstanding the fact that certain Govt agency's monitor forums. That the Govt has my information and knows what I am up to is fine, doesn't worry me, but private company's that does worry me.

    I live here now and accept many of the things that go on, however the US is still having to catch up with the rest of the world with matters regarding data privacy and data protection. The Global Data Privacy Regulation will hit the USA in 2020 and organisations who do not comply with simple things like: Informing the data subject they can opt out by not having their personal data passed on; or, who fail to inform the data subject their data is being stored for a particular purpose (like future direct mail marketing) will be heavily fined. I saw a bank in the UK fined $750,000.00 to the Govt and a compensatory payment to every customer affected because an enthusiastic marketing executive used the wrong database for a direct mail campaign. I myself, always tick the box to state I never want my information shared and received $3000 compensation when I challenged a company for sharing my information with another company - it was cheaper for them to apologise to me with $3000 than to pay the Govt fine if I reported it.

    I have, quite frankly, been amazed at the freeness and willingness to share information when asked over here, no one seem's to question it. Then I come over with my european approach and question why it is needed. For example, in the US your credit checking and so many other things are uniquely identified with your social security numbers. Why? It is possibly the most important piece of Personally Identifiying Information (PII) in your possession and was created by the Govt. so that it could allocate your social security payments from your employer, NOT so that some dipstick could open an account for you in a store. I have worked around most of europe and a fair few other countries in the world and none of them would even ask for a social security number, never mind ask if they could make a copy of your drivers licence for anything other than car hire or a test ride/drive.

    No one here wants to offend anyone, or get into a face to face argument - annoy a Brit and he will thump you, annoy a German and you will get a lecture, annoy a Frenchman and you get a "Pfft" followed by silence. The unwillingness to tell people to Foxtrot Oscar when they make an unreasonable data request has led to the open door of personal data being shared around........look at the volume of junk mail people receive here. Question why they want the information and tell them "NO" every so often, little people making up little rules should be put in their place.
    #18
  19. LAFS

    LAFS Long timer

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    Got it.

    See you corrected someone else.

    So what do you do when you want to take a test ride car or bike and they want to photocopy your license?

    Still, most people throw more information away in their trash then one can glean from a drivers license or registration card.
    #19
  20. PaulBarton

    PaulBarton Long timer Supporter

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    I also addressed that. You are fully entitled to request all copies be returned to you when you return the car or bike.

    What you do with your info is up to you (and anyone else that is able to access it).
    #20
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