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The Quota thread

Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by Nessman, Mar 22, 2007.

  1. jay pc

    jay pc Been here awhile

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    Jun 28, 2019
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    629
    Location:
    Ardenne
    I've now had the Quota for 10 months, done 10.000 Kms, and formed a very low opinion of just about all aspects of it, which suits my purpose
    in a way, as I got it to spare my beloved T3 the grief of rainy days, muddy or salty roads, and to not care about the esthetics / guilt of riding a
    dirty bike, or freeze my fingers off washing it in winter. I have to admit that it seems reliable at least, and the power is adequate, EXCEPT for:

    the often mentioned very crappy throttle response between 3 and 4000 RPM. This I find very difficult to overlook.

    It came with a Power Commander, programmed (it says) for a Jackal V11, with the values modified all over the TP/RPM range.
    The Jackal has a totally different EFI system, so there's that... Then I unplugged the PoCo, which made NO difference I could detect.

    So my question here is, could someone who feels that his PoCo settings have improved his Quota, post his/her settings here ?
    I'm no good with this computer stuff, but might find the help to just upload a new map...
    Any help would be appreciated, Thanks !
  2. Dirk S.

    Dirk S. Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2016
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    50
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    north in europe
    I cannot contribute to answering your question. I ask for forgiveness.
    But there are long discussions about the clean tuning and adjustment of the fuel supply with the old quotas.
    The few Quota drivers who have converted to carburetors no longer have to worry about this.
    I am one of them.
    Maybe you can read or translate something here http://www.guzzi-forum.de/Forum/index.php?topic=51975.0
    True, might take time. But not wasted time.
    I think there is a lot of valuable advice here.
  3. jay pc

    jay pc Been here awhile

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    ^^ Forgiveness granted, Dirk :-)

    I'm familiar with your beautifully, sensibly, expensively modified Quota, just the kind of thing I won't be getting into...
    You have to choose your battles, this one's not for me.
    I see an easy out, copying someone else's hard earned results, if they let me, so I'll wait a bit more here...

    Cheers.
  4. Dirk S.

    Dirk S. Adventurer

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    I cannot agree with you.
    All or nothing is the motto...
    But thank you very much for the forgiveness and the compliment!

    I am a simple man. A fuel injection is not for simple people.
    I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you will finally be happy with the quota.
  5. jetpoweredmonkey

    jetpoweredmonkey Copilot: GSD Sharpe

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    375
    Location:
    West Sacramento, CA
    I have spent a lot of time tuning my Q with TunerPro and the excellent GuzziDiag tools along with a cheap USB interface. Lots of details on that setup in this thread. I've been able to eliminate all the abruptness on tip-in, smooth out the delivery overall, improve MPG (a little) and it even has a fuel cutoff on overrun just like every other fuel injected vehicle.

    I still haven't got the MPG where I think it should be (usually about 35 when I would expect more like 40) and I'm still not thrilled with some heavy vibration in 4th and 5th between about 3500-4000RPM, but it's much nicer to ride than when I bought it.

    So, it can be done. I would even send you my tune file but I think that's not a good idea. Being a "mostly finished" product that requires some owner engineering, it probably wouldn't work that well in another bike. And I'm not a professional tuner, nor have I tuned with a wideband lambda sensor, it's all seat of the pants.

    What I will say is 90% of the improvements came from adjusting timing not fuel, something the Power Commander can't do. I will also say that adding fuel is not the answer in my experience, so the Power Commander is pretty useless in this application. Ebay it and buy an interface. All the software I've been using to play around is freeware although I did make a donation to support Guzzidiag.
    XYooper906 likes this.
  6. jay pc

    jay pc Been here awhile

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    ^^ Thanks, jetpoweredmonkey, mostly for disabusing me of the notion that the PoCo in itself offers a solution. That's time saved.
    As I've said we each pick our battles, I have the utmost respect for those who labor to improve their "mostly finished :D" Quota,
    but I would no more expand energy/money on mine than I would on "tuning" my toaster. I ask only basic things of it, which it does
    well enough except for that 3-4000 RPM black hole, so be it, then.

    Again, thanks for the reality check :-)
  7. auto

    auto Been here awhile

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    Feb 6, 2007
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    south jersey
    When I had mine last year it seem to respond to TPS settings. You should check yours and see what it is set at. When mine was set to stock it had good MPG but did hesitate a bit. When I bumped it up a bit it ran very good with no hesitation.
  8. jay pc

    jay pc Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the tip, auto, I might try that, as I understand it only requires a throttle balancing kit and a multimeter.
    My bike doesn't so much hesitate at any point, the throttle just becomes unresponsive in the RPM range I mentioned.
    That gives it poor acceleration from a typical cruising speed, unless I downshift, which shouldn't be necessary just where
    you near max torque, FFS ! :nah
  9. jetpoweredmonkey

    jetpoweredmonkey Copilot: GSD Sharpe

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    West Sacramento, CA
    TPS is definitely critical as is throttle body sync. The TB sync needs to be spot on at midrange RPM with the idle air balance screw closed. This takes some doing, because you have to pull the tank to adjust. After you get the open throttle setting perfect, leave the idle balance alone. It may be a little lumpy, so be it - this POS throttle body can't be set perfectly due to its poor design. The USB interface and Guzzidiag will help you get it dialed in.

    As big of a PITA as the Quota is to tune, that magic handling and crazy good comfort for this tall guy keeps me from ever getting rid of it!
  10. jetpoweredmonkey

    jetpoweredmonkey Copilot: GSD Sharpe

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    Location:
    West Sacramento, CA
    Adding some timing in that midrange zone really helped my bike. I have read every owner comment I can find about the Q, some people complain that they run like crap, others say they run beautifully. Quality control and engineering R&D on this EFI system was very clearly not a priority at the factory!
  11. camionjeep

    camionjeep Adventurer

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  12. camionjeep

    camionjeep Adventurer

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    Hi all, newby here (sort of). From the recent comments (I've actually read all 74 pages of this thread, some great stuff here, and I'm very happy to have found this), I hope everyone spent Christmas wrestling with the abysmal injection system, so they can get away for a well earned ride. I don't seem to need to do this, because for some reason my early Q 1000 doesn't suffer from any running issues at all. I do have to qualify this statement a little. A very good friend of mine owned this bike for many years, and he tended to it lovingly, which given his somewhat lack of mechanical sympathy was unfortunate shall we say. He did however persuade it to ride all the way around Australia (home), extraordinarily overloaded with luggage ( I swear that when I stripped the home fabricated massive rack off it, I heard the suspension give off a small sigh of relief), and one small girlfriend. No dramas the whole trip, unless you count a minor mishap in one of the central sandy bits, where the bike toppled over as it came to a halt, resulting in one broken ankle for said GF. The bike was completely ok though, which was a relief :) Later back in Melbourne the bike was stolen one night, subsequently recovered, but wouldn't run right. Lots of money spent tryingto fix running issues, but eventually my mate decided he'd had enough, and was going to sell it. You might think this was when I bought it, and indeed I did put my hand up fairly quickly, but was rudely informed that there had been a waiting list of other mates for years, and I was somewhere near the back. So a different mate ended up with it. This turned out to be a very good thing as the new owner was very mechanically, and cosmetically sympathetic, almost never abusing it, and the bike subsequently had excessive lavishments lavished on it, and became a very good thing indeed. Some years later this owner started to suffer shoulder issues and decided to find himself a neat nimble cycle that didn't require herculean strength just to turn around in the garage, and this was actually the point at which I pounced. I consider myself extremely lucky to end up with this bike, as I understand there are only 7 1000's, and 9 1100's in this country (numbers are hearsay only, not verified), but suffice to say there is not another one in the Victorian Guzzi club. You could say I have a dreadful Italian disease as virtually every other bike (well road bike, my dirt bikes have Spanish disease), is Italian and under appreciated, including my Gilera CX125, which is almost a 125GP bike that's sort of road legal, complete with single sided front end. I don't think that my bike has a Power Comander, or if it did, it's been turfed, but I know it's had a non standard cam put in, and lots of time spent by a talented person making sure everything is right. I don't know if mine is the odd one out, but I'd say the injection is superior to carbs when set up properly. It starts without hesitation hot, cold, or in between, only needing half choke (enrichment?) when dead cold, and only for a few seconds. It runs smoothly and steadily immediately, unlike that clip of the red one that had just been 'tuned', and sounded like it was running on half it's cylinders when it fired up. It's not unduly noisy in the engine, yes I know it's a Guzzi, and it makes noises, but not like my Laverda RGS does, or even my least ancient bike, the Benelli Amazonas 1130 triple I've now lived with for nearly 13 years. Like any decent Italian triple, it sounds almost exactly like the benchmark, a proper Laverda, as if someone is shaking a bucket of bolts around in the crank case. This isn't the case with the Quota, it does throb, and it's got a groundshaking note thanks to an aftermarket pipe, but mechanically it's quieter than my other Italians, although the neighbors can always hear you put it in gear first thing in the morning, yes we know they clunk. It's got instant response off idle, and there's no flat spots, or hesitation anywhere in the rev range. Having lived with Dellorto pumpers for nearly 30 years (and if you think 2 are hard on the wrist, you should try holding 3 open), I really appreciate the light throttle springing. For me it just makes the bike more rideable. I should clarify slightly here. While I've owned the Q for nearly 5 years, I've only ridden it in the last couple because at the time I bought it I had had a recent accident (not vehicle), where a tree fell on me on my property, leaving me with a paralysed right arm which the doctors told me would never work again. I still wanted the Quota and wasn't prepared to possibly wait 10 years or more for it to come back on the market again, so I bought it against all advice. To be honest, I wasn't too worried, no-one was telling me the bike was bad, just me, so that made it fine. I've recovered enough movement to ride fine, but I can't really toss a big bike around in the dirt anymore (ask me about the trip where along with first mate [who went to the dark side, well, orange side], we hit a deep bulldust hole that was roughly a hundred metres long at about 180kmh while traveling on back roads across to the world speedway sidecar championships being held in South Australia that year). By necessity I ride a bit more sedately now, and haven't had any real issues with the Q, other than a couple of drops early on in my driveway, while turning around. No I can't pick it up with the bad arm, so far i've had good results with the large car trolley jack. Does any one have any advice about the various bike lifts on the market for adventure bikes ridden by feeble people. Do any of them work?
    usedtobefast and jay pc like this.
  13. camionjeep

    camionjeep Adventurer

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    13
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    Gembrook, Victoria, Australia
    Sorry, forgot about fuel consumption. I get a pretty steady 320 to 350km from a tank on the Q, I think thatr's about 50+mpg. By comparison the Amazonas gets max 240 from 20 litres, but more usually between 200 or 220km. Drops to 150 if I flog it on the power map (dash switch). Yes it's fuel injected, no it's not running incorrectly. Like a lot of V twins I've found the Q to be pretty easy on the fuel, but obviously they need to be set up right. Forget about ever getting this from 3 cylinders, but they do make a scary noise when you crack the throttle open.
  14. jay pc

    jay pc Been here awhile

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    To answer your question, I hold it as self-evident that a bike should be manoeuvred from the right side (to be able to hold the brake lever),
    but some dimwit on the Quota design team put the centerstand tang and lifting handle on the left, so although I have a perfectly good bike lift table,
    it's the first bike I've had to work on Kabul-style, ass on the ground, in a long, long time...
  15. camionjeep

    camionjeep Adventurer

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    Thanks Jay, every bike I've had with a centre stand has it on the left side along with the side stand. I guess I had really never thought about that in terms of right hand drive, left hand drive countries before. Are sidestands on the right side for American bikes? Also I wasn't actually asking about bike lift tables, but the light weight break down style of lifting device you can carry with your tools in case the bike falls over when you're on your own in the middle of no-where, and there's no chance you can lift the bike back onto it's wheels by yourself. I never even thought about these things when I was young and able bodied. In fact I think I would have made rude remarks about the potency of any bloke using one, but how time changes things. I can wing it without one for a while, but I know that I'm going to get more adventurous and bolder as I do more adv riding, and while I probably shouldn't ride on my own, you know. It's something that has real potential to catch me out, and maybe even strand me, although it's amazing what you can use to stand a bike back up if you're not afraid of scratching it.
  16. camionjeep

    camionjeep Adventurer

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    Just thinking about maneuvering a bike from the right side. Do you know that having had mates working in bike shops, or owning them over the yeares, I have literally pushed hundreds of bikes back into the shop at the end of the day, and I could count the number of times I have been on the right side of a bike while walking it round, on one hand literally. I have very commonly held the bars from the front and pushed the bike backwards, it makes them easy to steer, but the right side, no. I had a think and It might be all about the side the stand is on. If you think about it, if the stand is on the side away from you, then you lean the bike away from you to put it on the stand. I alwayys find this feels really sketchy and out of control. When I was an instructor, i would never have taught someone to do that. It's always lean the bike towards yourself to drop it on the stand, so you can use body weight to control it. On the Italian bikes with stands that flip up when you lift the weight off them, it's impossible to put them on the stand from the wrong side. It's one of the worst things when parking my Laverda RGS, you have to hold the side stand forwards against the spring while lowering (dropping) the bike on to it. Sketchy as hell, if you don't keep the stand fully forward while lowering, it can fold up as tyhe weight rests onto it, but of course you can't save yourself with your left foot because it's holding the stand forwards. I never actually managed to drop the bike on myself doing this, but I've seen others do it. No issues riding away, just lean the bike upright, stand flicks up automatically as the weight comes off, ride away, simples. I'm certain you can adapt easily enough to maneuvering from the left, so you can use the stand properly. I've always thought that you have more control of the front brake walking them on the left side as your arm is extended rather than possibly folded up against you, or cramped for room depending on what you're doing. It's not even really a left handed, right handed thing, just what you get used to. I've learned to kickstart a number of bikes with my left foot over the years and I reckon that feels much weirder. I know people who just cannot manage enough co-ordination in their left foot to kick a left kick bike. I've had the Bultaco Frontera 360 since i was 20, and that's a high compression single 2 stoke with a left kick. Worse still the kick shaft starts it's movement a long way forwards from vertical, which makes the whole action difficult. The other one is the ATK 605 I got about 5 years ago. It's difficult because even though I'm six two, it's the tallest bike I've ever had to kick, by a long margin, and I've been getting spoiled with a lazy thumb for too long. i don't think I would like to kick the Q over, and the Amazonas, 3 high compression cylinders, and 1100cc, forget it.
  17. jay pc

    jay pc Been here awhile

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    I guess it's all highly personal, but when not sitting on it, I want my main hold to control the brake as well, and that's only possible from the right.
    That way my left hand is free to grab the rear rail, or the lifting handle, or even scratch my nose, and still keep the bike stationary.

    Understanding now what your meaning was about "bike lifts", I've discovered that I'm in the same sad predicament you describe, for the first time
    in my life, not being able to pick it up by myself if it keels over. I was not aware of the existence of a "gadget" to remedy this.
    My plan, not yet tested, was to carry a strap that I could loop around a shoulder, and thread through the luggage rack (or wherever), and then use
    my legs' power, rather than my back's, to haul it upright.
    What is this "bike lift" you have in mind ? Never heard of it ! Please show me ! :-)
  18. usedtobefast

    usedtobefast Been here awhile

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    Camionjeep - thanks for the great story! And since you have the 1000 vs the 1100, that means it is super tall, that correct? I can see that making everything a bit trickier.

    And 50 mpg! Wow, that's great. My 1100's best is probably 40 mpg, and more normal is 34-38 mpg.

    And the clunk going into gear ... hum, my Guzzi's are oddly silent when clicking into first. My V-Strom 1000 on the other hand makes a horrible CA-CLUNK went I put it in first with the clutch pulled all the way in.

    As for the jacks, I've heard of this one: https://www.motobikejack.com/ but that looks like a lot to carry and kind of complicated and pretty darn expensive. And these: http://www.eglidegoodies.com/id444.html like the MBJ-01.

    Never used one so no personal experience though.
  19. camionjeep

    camionjeep Adventurer

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    This is one of the lifts I've seen, but there are quite a few being made now. https://eastbound.shop/product-info/lifting-a-motorcycle-motowinch-info/
    my main concern is getting one that works properly and does the job easily. They're a bit expensive to test by buying and taking a punt that it works as advertised. I have a tendency to have a higher regard for someones personal experience using a product, than I have for advertising blurb.
    jay pc likes this.
  20. camionjeep

    camionjeep Adventurer

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    Thanks for the jack links. It looks like these have been a thing for a while with owners of super big heavy tourers. I certainly wouldn't be lifting a 700 pound bike plus luggage/ junk etc. It's pretty amazing how much difference there can be between bikes of the same manufacturer/ model, depending entirely on how they were put together at the factory. I suppose if we are buying them because they are not UJM's then we should already understand this. The early Q1000 is certainly tall, but not as tall as my Amazonas. At six two I can put both feet flat n the ground easily on the Q, and it's got plenty of distance from seat to pegs, so I find it very comfortable for distances.