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The Running thread

Discussion in 'Sports' started by slackmeyer, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    Will you explain a bit about the heart rate training please? I have the ignorance.
  2. gazoo

    gazoo Wandering

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    Heart rate training is based on maintaining a certain heart rate "zone" (percentage of max HR) during some/all of your run.

    Most people train based on pace - IE do miles at 9 minute pace for an easy run, or 8 minute pace for a hard run. Depending on what you're trying to achieve this may be fine but it could be counterproductive by being above or below the optimal HR zone for the workout.

    If you do HR training, you may want to target a lower zone, say 60-70% of max HR for an easy run, and a higher zone, say 80-90% of max HR for a hard run. This can be helpful in building up lactate threshold and enable you to run faster/longer in the long run.

    HR training is also especially useful if you're running hills, as it may be difficult to maintain a certain pace per mile.

    Good article here: https://www.runnersworld.com/beginner/a20812270/should-i-do-heart-rate-training/
    AdvRich, DeepSea and nuggets like this.
  3. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    Thanks Gazoo.

    Looking at the data from yesterday, I spent most of my time in the Zone 4 (hard), and a bit of Zone 5 at the end.
  4. Skapegoat

    Skapegoat Been here awhile

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    Gazoo explains well.

    Most runners make the mistake of running to fast ALL the time.
    They never improve and injure easy because they think everyday is a race, they must beat their time on every run.

    The way to get faster at running is to run slow.
    Running slow is what builds your endurance.
    Building endurance is the most important part of running.
    It makes you efficient, it makes your body able to endure more speed and it reduces your heart rate overall.


    I started at 9 min miles at my zone 2 heart rate in 2016 and ran for 9 months at this pace with no speed work or threshold sets etc.
    I ran a 3.20 marathon.
    My z2 is now about 7min 20 per mile pace.

    That base building was key!
    When I added in speed and threshold it was pbs everything I raced.

    Stop running at z4!

    Try a good long slow run, its not about the distance you cover its about time on your feet.
    With covid and no races now is the perfect time to get a 3 to 6 month base in.

    Then keep a long slow run once or twice a week.
    Treshold once or twice a week.
    One speed session a week.

    Pm me if you want a programme for a specific distance race. :happay
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  5. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    Skapegoat, I really appreciate you answering my questions.

    For me Zone 1: 89-107, 2: 107-125, 3: 125-142, 4: 142-160, 5: 160-178 (I'm mostly adding this so I will remember it).

    I'm not racing, just some guy who's running regularish for the first time. I've dabbled a bit before with running, but now I'm trying to make it a regular thing.

    How long is a long slow run?
    What do you mean by threshold?
    What's a speed session?
    I have basic questions cause ignorance.
    What would you suggest I do to train for the neighborhood 5k on 26 Nov? (Current plan is nothing in particular :lol3).

    Unusually for me, I ran again this evening. Just a mile, zone 2. My kids wanted to go run a mile, so I went along.
    DeepSea likes this.
  6. PoundSand

    PoundSand Long timer

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    Long slow run is (once you build up to it), for most people, 60min-2hours. About 20-30% of your total weekly mileage (again, when you build up to it) is a popular recommended range.

    Threshold is ~high zone 3 - zone 4 training. Something you could theoretically maintain for up to ~1 hour when racing (so working your butt off).

    Speed session, varies. Anywhere from 7-8 second sprints for absolute speed development to 400m -1k intervals to longer speed / endurance threshold / temp runs, depending on what you're working on.

    If you're going to do heart rate training, try to get a good estimate of your max or threshold heart rate (consult your doctor before doing strenuous exercise, etc), otherwise the zones are kind of meaningless. And it might be worth getting a chest strap.
    AdvRich, nuggets and DeepSea like this.
  7. Skapegoat

    Skapegoat Been here awhile

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    Pounds and speaks the truth!

    If you haven't done much start out easy.
    Try a 40min z2 run for your long run and add a mile each week until you get to 90mins. Dont go above z2 if you meet a hill slow down and walk if you have to.

    Treshold for you will be upper z4 155 to 160 but don't go above 160!

    Speed session for 5k would be 400s and 800s.

    A plan for a 5k.

    Sunday long slow run 40 build to 90min.
    Monday rest
    Tuesday 3x10mins at treshold with 3min rest between efforts.
    Weds 40min slow z2
    Thursday 3x10mins at treshold with 3min rest between efforts.

    Friday rest

    Saturday 4x400meters at lower z4 rest 2mins between.

    Do that until 2 weeks before and then drop one treshold session and rest up 2days before the race.

    Stay within the zones given or you are not following the programme.
    If the body is hurting just do everything z2 until you feel good again.
    If you miss a session drop it dont try and make up for it just get back on track the next day.

    Best of luck dude.
    nuggets likes this.
  8. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    Thanks SO MUCH!

    Imma give this a try and report back.
    It's thurdsday, so I'll start with the 3x10 threshold.
  9. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    I did the Thursday 3x10 threshold and that went fine.
    Working on the Friday rest day part now. Pretty sure I'm nailing it.
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  10. Skapegoat

    Skapegoat Been here awhile

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    Brilliant man!
    As I said any niggles or pains back off or rest up just listen to the body.

    All sessions should have a 10 min z1 warm up before and cool down after.

    Buy a foam roller and use it on the rest days.
    You can also do yoga on the rest days or any days.
    Yoga for runners on YouTube by adrianna is good and free plus she's a hottie!

    The runners you use are important I would always recommend Nike pegasus as they are a good all round nutral shoe.

    You can buy fancy shoes for racing but don't do that until you are sure you will stick to running.
    DeepSea likes this.
  11. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    Thanks man. All good points.

    I usually get some yoga once a week.
    I had bruised my feet running a gravel loop locally so I went to the running store and bought my first pair of real running shoes. Brooks something or other.

    Did the 4x400s today. Went pretty smooth. 400 meters is a long time when running hard.
    Going to do the long slow run tomorrow.
    Thanks again for the info.

    Running is weird cause it sux and is good all at once.
    DeepSea likes this.
  12. Skapegoat

    Skapegoat Been here awhile

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    Good man.
    The self torture becomes slightly addictive!
    What is your best 5k time so far?
    You won't believe how much difference a proper plan will make.

    About those 400s... 800s and mile repeats at the same effort are grueling!
    But not much use for 5k.

    Enjoy the long run and embrace easy!
    Never get carried away on a long run, keep it slow and zen.
    nuggets and DeepSea like this.
  13. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    Best 5k time? Not sure. I've got a 3.4 mile run in 32 minutes I did recently. That's the closest I have to a benchmark.

    I did the slow run today. 5 miles in an hour and 3mins. Backed down to a walk each time I went above zone 2 for about 10-15secs, then back to jog.

    It's nice to have a plan. Before I would just go.
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  14. Skapegoat

    Skapegoat Been here awhile

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    Great stuff.
    Its about training smart not just running the same pace.
    You will knock minutes off that time.
    Stick to the programme and you will ace it.
    DeepSea and nuggets like this.
  15. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    Story time.

    I wanted to give my kids (10 and 12) some spending money.
    1. I don't pay for chores. Family pitches in.
    2. I don't pay for nothing.
    I came up with the following: $0.50 per mile for walking, $0.50 per 2 miles biking, and $1 per mile running.
    That's been going fine.

    Last month the kids came up with the idea that they would walk 8 miles a day every day in September. I thought they would never do it, and told them I'd pay double if they did.
    Well, here we are on 28 September, and they have 216 miles booked, and they went out and ran two miles this morning. I'm going to have to pay them each $240 in a couple days. :clap

    I think they'll take the day off on 1 October.
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  16. DeepSea

    DeepSea electronically challenged

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    That's awesome. :lift
    nuggets likes this.
  17. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    Ok, so I've been working on the @Skapegoat training plan all week. I have 16.8 miles so far this week and should get 2 more miles tomorrow with the 4x400 workout. That's more miles than I have ever run in a week.

    I was wondering if I should skip running on days that I go biking?
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  18. gazoo

    gazoo Wandering

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    Nice job getting the miles in!

    If you're building base, I would skip running on biking days, and vice versa, unless you're talking about a short/casual ride. Your body will tell you what you need. Skapegoat's plan from above is good, and has you running 5 days a week (Sun/Tue/Wed/Thu/Sat), with two rest days. Rest days can also be cross-training, but give your body time to recover.

    Once you build up a good base, it wouldn't hurt to double up a couple of days a week, IMO.

    Personally, I prefer and seem to perform better running four days a week.
    - Mon race pace
    - Wed speed - 800/1600s on the track or tempo runs
    - Thur easy
    - Sat - LSD, preferably dirt trails

    I'll throw some biking in a couple of days a week as I can - sometimes on run days, but mostly off days.

    All you can do is try some things out and see how it goes. But it's better to ease into it than overdo it and get injured.
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  19. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    Well, I blew off running for MTB yesterday. Didn't last long cause I crashed and came real close to knocking myself out.

    Am feeling pretty decent today for how hard I biffed it yesterday.
    Managed to get a 6.2 mile slow run in. Hadn't run that far in over 20 years.
  20. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    I know @Gummee! (likes?) does the running.