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The Running thread

Discussion in 'Sports' started by slackmeyer, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. Ridge

    Ridge Faster than farm equipment. Supporter

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    Tonight’s run was interesting. I had to meet someone for a CL purchase out of town so I took the running gear to fit something in afterward. It was completely dark out when I started at 6:30 and I don’t yet have a running watch so I ran completely on feel. The American Tobacco Trail is a 25 mile converted rail trail that heads due south out of Durham and is paved for the first few miles but turns to cinder gravel after that. Super tall trees line both sides of the ATT which makes it wonderful in the oppressive summers here but really, really creepy in the dark on an overcast night.

    I ran completely on feel and was shooting for 2-3 miles at 10 mins per mile. By the time I got back to the truck; I was at 4.3 miles at 10:28 per mile. More than I’d hoped but my pacing felt good. I focused on form and foot strike, trying to keep from heel striking. My calves are tight so that tells me it was working.

    I stopped under an old overpass to snap a photo... like I said, very lonely.

    D2658B30-F46B-4AA4-900F-943D6E0544F0.jpeg
  2. DeepSea

    DeepSea electronically challenged

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    Nice. :thumb

    Improvements on your form will make running more enjoyable. Barefoot drills (for very short periods of time) are good for your form. You will never heel strike barefooted and will be up on the balls of your feet. One of the things I focus on is being light on my feet or quiet while I run. If there is anyone else on the trails. I tend to startle them as I pass. Even calling out as I approach. It definitely wasn't that way in the beginning.

    Another thing that helps is strengthening your lower legs. I have some YouTube videos saved somewhere. My favorite is curling up a towel with my toes. It sounds weird, but now that those tiny muscles no longer hurt on long runs. I'm grateful for it.

    Steve
    Shawn595 and Ridge like this.
  3. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

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    I SO want to go for a run and can't. Been a week and then some. Ankle still hurts dammit!

    I guess I'll have to acknowledge that I'm not as young as I used to be one of these days.

    :bluduh

    M
  4. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    I had my PT visit yesterday. The PT says he suspects Bursitis and gave me a stretching and icing routine. Back in 10 days to run on the treadmill for a form assessment. He says they'll put markers on me an video me to assess my running form.
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  5. Bloodweiser

    Bloodweiser honestly

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    Do you folks stretch at all?
    I used to have a pretty dedicated at-home yoga habit, that I completely tossed when I found running.
    I still have good mobility, but I wonder if it's something I should start peppering in here and there.
    When? After runs, rest days..?
  6. DeepSea

    DeepSea electronically challenged

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    I try to stretch daily, but it usually happens once a week, unless I get time off of work. It's a whole body stretch (for the most part) and I always feel better afterwards. It helps my back and neck more than anything. If you PM me, I can email you the stretches. For running, to keep those muscles loose. I'll stretch lightly AFTER my run and only if something feels tight. What seems to help more is using a foam roller and a massage gun. Once I get to where I'm pushing my workouts with intensity or distance. The foam roller will get used religiously. I also have a roller routine I can share. If you've hit it really hard you can use the roller/gun or stretching a 2 to 3 times a day. Just like everything else, don't over do it.

    Anytime I've ever felt something going on with my knees. It has come back to a surrounding muscle group. Stretching, rolling, massage gun or pressure points has made it go away almost instantly.

    Steve
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  7. Ridge

    Ridge Faster than farm equipment. Supporter

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    I will only do static stretches after a run or very strenuous ride/race. Pre-workout usually consists of some lunges, free squats, and maybe jumping jacks to get the HR up and blood flowing into those muscles. I use the TRX straps about twice per week for my plyometrics and strength training. It's all based on bodyweight resistance and incorporates a core element with every evolution.
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  8. Ridge

    Ridge Faster than farm equipment. Supporter

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    I have been told, anecdotally, that my singlespeed MTB racing helps strengthen all the muscles supporting the knees rather than being detrimental to them. I have no scientific basis for such claims but it seems to make logical sense as I spend much of my time on the MTB out of the saddle and using my core and joints as an active suspension. Running obviously has quite a bit more direct impact to the knees but I do feel that impact less after my legs warm up and get into a rhythm at my desired pace.
    DeepSea likes this.
  9. swimmer

    swimmer armchair asshole

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    I have a lower and upper body stretching and foam rolling routine that I try to do5 times a week. It absolutely has improved the way I feel both while exercising and when getting out of bed in the morning.

    I also have an upper and lower body "mobility" workout that I do twice a week that originated from treatments to a hamstring injury and then about a year later shoulder pain caused by poor scapula control.

    Overall the addition of these two elements of body care have made a big difference in how I feel 24/7.
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  10. Bloodweiser

    Bloodweiser honestly

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    It's been a few days of adding in light stretching and I think I can tell a difference.
    10 minutes after runs and 20 minutes on rest days.

    Foam rolling has always been a thing for me, except I use a 4" PVC pipe. I've been doing that religiously before runs and each night, just for about 10 minutes or so. Lately however, I subbed pre-run rolling with some squats and I think that has been helping my IT issue more than the rolling was. Probably too early to tell.
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  11. Ridge

    Ridge Faster than farm equipment. Supporter

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    Keep those muscles moving people!

    4 Laws of Muscle
    The protein and muscle guru Luc van Loon wants you to bulk up—and keep what you've got
    DeepSea likes this.
  12. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

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    Got in a hobble/run/walk today. 30min of Slow with a capital SLOW. My ankle's a little unhappy, so I probably won't run again till Tues/Wed or maybe Thurs. Went to Lake Fairfax and 'ran' the smoothest trails in the park (slowly!) It seems I've lost all the running fitness I'd built up and am starting over again :bluduh

    M
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  13. Bloodweiser

    Bloodweiser honestly

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    Update:
    Completely swapped pre + post run foam rolling, for just post run stretching and I'm feeling wayyyy better.
    Gone is the first mile stiffness of every run, I'm able to just start moving!

    Also, that combined with some basic movements (StrengthRunning's IT Rehab routine mixed with Athlean X's),
    my knee problem has disappeared. Happy runner!


    And to return to the easy running discussion,
    I've tried a few things like talking and singing while glancing at my (wrist based) HR and gauging my perceived effort,
    and it turns out I can sing and say the pledge of allegiance just fine up to like 165bpm.
    Best trick I came across was nasal breathing, it sure feels a little uncomfortable, a lot like breathing through an SCBA, but it keeps my HR in the low 140s, which age 36, I think is where I want my easy running to be about.
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  14. DeepSea

    DeepSea electronically challenged

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    Congratulations on the happy knee. :super Finding the cause to fix the symptom (as opposed to treating the symptom) puts you ahead of most people. Great job. :thumb

    Does your pace/effort change when your breathing thru your nose? I can't imagine getting in less oxygen will bring your HR down. It might be the sensor type giving you false readings. I see high spikes (some that last a while) in my wrist based sensor (Garmin Fenix 6 series). Ones that don't show up if I use the chest strap for the same effort on the same course. Its as if the sensor isn't picking up the HR but is giving data anyways. I see this when I take it off after a run. The pulse changes up or down for a few minutes but it's actually on the coffee table. :lol3

    Steve
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  15. Bloodweiser

    Bloodweiser honestly

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    Who's to say I'm taking in less oxygen?

    Nasal breathing seems to act like a governor for me,
    when I notice I really want to open my mouth for a big breath, if I look at my HR it's up in the low 150s, so I know I need to slow down.
    It's hard for me to attach my HR to pace because I live in a hilly area, I can't go more than half a mile without going up or down 100 feet.

    And effort? It all seems easy, anything between 130-160 seems the same to me.
    Which is why I think I'm becoming a fan of keeping my mouth shut.
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  16. Ridge

    Ridge Faster than farm equipment. Supporter

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    I inhale with the nose and exhale with the mouth, but the challenge for my overly-analytical brain is to not overthink the breath rhythm per stride. I'll catch myself counting the number of inhales with every footfall and exhales the same.
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  17. nuggets

    nuggets It's all my fault...

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    Good news.

    I "graduated" from PT today with some exercises to do and a return to running plan.

    The main thing was getting the cadence up to get a mid foot strike.

    I'm going to ease back into this. Just slow running for a long time.

    Got a foster dog at the moment, and I'm going to see if I can get her to run with me. I tried some very short distance slow running with her (<100yds) and she didn't seem too into it. However she's recovering from nearly starving to death (gained 16lbs in the two weeks we've had her), so could be she's not got the energy quite yet.
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  18. DeepSea

    DeepSea electronically challenged

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    Makes sense on acting like a governor. If that helps you control your pace/effort, roll with it. If I can't get mine under control by relaxing/meditating. I'll just stop, walk a short bit, then restart. That almost always does the trick, unless I'm stressed about taking the time away from work to exercise. :bluduh

    I'll try and explain why I mentioned you may be getting less oxygen (English is my first language, but it doesn't always come across that way). What triggers our need to breath are the Chemoreceptors in our lungs. They detect the carbon dioxide levels and cause us to breath more or at least feel like we need to breath more to expel the CO2. If you have less oxygen (hypoxia in extreme cases) there is no feeling like the need breath. Less oxygen without the rise in carbon dioxide and you'll eventually just go to sleep. The more gases you exchange in your lungs the more oxygenated your blood stream is and in turn your muscles.

    My son is as fast or faster than I am on any given day under 10 miles. He's 28, boxes (fights and works at UPS :lol3), is in great shape overall and runs regularly. We ran together a few weeks ago planned 8 miles with a couple miles of speed work. The first 5 were at a slow all day pace/effort. Then we eased into the speed work. Switching from 10:30 min/mile to 7:30's. He was breathing thru his nose, I wasn't. He didn't have any problem with that until we picked up the pace over the next mile. At that point I had a rhythmic breathing pattern going. Forceful exhale that was in time with a number of strides. He was still breathing thru his nose and struggling to keep up. I slowed a bit and coached him on what I was doing. After a couple minutes of recovery but still moving fast. We were able to pick up the pace back to where he was falling off and then some. He wasn't struggling anymore and recovered from what I suspect to be an oxygen deficit. It's far from science, but it's just something I've noticed. So take it for what it's worth.

    As far as the easy pace/effort. It may not feel much different in the 130-160 range. This won't be noticeable for short runs, but it's the difference of running 13 miles or 30 miles. I thought my "all day pace" was in the 9ish min/mile range :lol3. After trial and error (heavy on the error) I found this was way off. The subtle difference in feel translated to saving the muscles for the second half of a race. Same as your easy long runs. Finding your different paces/efforts for the length of time or distance you plan to run is one of the toughest things about running.

    I live in the hills too. Pace is tough to keep steady, but effort is easier. My friend made the comment. "You know, you don't have to kill yourself because it's uphill." :deal Now, I try to keep the effort steady. Shorten my stride and keep moving with close to the same cadence, until I can't. Then it's either walk it or pick up the effort and that depends on the focus of the run.

    Sorry for the long winded reply. If you were closer, we could run together.
    Hope it makes sense.
    Steve

    I don't count, but on flat ground when I'm moving fast. I'll feel it as music. Step, step, step, step/breath, step, step, step, step/breath. Use that over-analytical brain to look for signs why you need another breath or if you can relax and breath less. A slight grade or wind and my rhythm has to change to keep the same work load or can lessen if they are in my favor.

    Steve
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  19. DeepSea

    DeepSea electronically challenged

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    Congratulations. :lift

    Good luck with the dog. I miss having mine to run with. She's gotten too old. :cry

    Steve
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  20. Bloodweiser

    Bloodweiser honestly

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    I've been thinking about what you said @DeepSea.

    So it seems to me, we obviously want the most O2 we can get,
    and we can do that by increasing the volume per stroke (inhale/exhale), the frequency (breaths/min or whatever) and of course, both.

    I know if I'm not thinking about my breathing, I tend to take short strokes, using both my mouth & nose for each stroke.
    But when focused, I can gather a lot of volume,
    which is what nasal breathing is/was doing for me.... it gave me something really concrete to focus on and I was taking in huge deep breaths.
    The exhale through the nose is definitely meditative, and is something that I've known to bring my HR down across (non-running) scenarios.

    However, after reading your post, I realize that the slow/meditative exhale certainly was leading to a low oxygenated environment at some point. So, on my last run I played around with a slow thoughtful inhale and a forceful exhale, once the pace was picked up. And I do think it really helped! A subjective feel on one run is nothing to change the book, but I am going to keep playing with the forceful exhale. It makes a lot of sense to get rid of the CO2 as quick as possible, something I wasn't acknowledging before.

    Re: counting breathes. I'm too borderline OCD to allow myself to actually count. I fear that's all I'll ever do for the rest of my running life.
    Instead, I found myself just feeling the rhythm. I've got that musical background and it felt like more of grooving to a beat of my feet and my breath.
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