The tipping point is right around the corner.

Discussion in 'Shiny Things' started by MJSfoto1956, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    I just don't see how that would provide for doing a one-day 1000mi trip [in the open western US] with no more than three or four stops that are no more than ~5min

    I easily do that in my present vehicles and intend for my next one to have the same capability
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  2. Cat0020

    Cat0020 El cheapo

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    The self-charging electric vehicle is the next step, charge as you go can likely make 1000 mi. day trip.
    How many one-day 1000 mi. trip do or can you take every year?

    I know that I would like to make more than 3 or 4, five min. stops along a 1000 mi. day trip, seems that's more torture than flying 1000 miles.
  3. Paebr332

    Paebr332 Good news everyone!

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    You are an outlier way, way to the right of the average. For MOST people, the rarity of doing such a trip would mean renting a vehicle to do it is a better economic decision than paying more 99% of the time you drive for that 1% when you "need" to go 1,000 miles in a single day. My personal record in 24 hours is a bit under 1,500 miles. I don't do those kinds of trips anymore because they are far from pleasant to me. Anything more than 6 hours by car and I am either considering flying, or breaking it into multiple driving days. There are now electric vehicles that can get that far (+/-350 miles) on a single charge, and many more that could make it with a recharge during a meal break.

    No one vehicle or vehicle type is going to fit the needs of all drivers. Sounds like an electric vehicle is not for you. We get that.
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  4. jsinclair

    jsinclair Been here awhile

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    All PHEV vehicles can be driven purely on gasoline. Chevy volt, Mitsubishi outlander phev, Chrysler Pacifica phev, BMW i3 rex.
    Our i3 with range extender has the smallest engine (650cc) and smallest gas tank (2.4gal) of any phev. But we were able to go 1000mi without charging. Granted quite a few fuel stops were involved, but with three people in a small car, it doesn't hurt to get out occasionally.
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  5. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    I do them often enough and I do a many more 400-600mi days or weekends

    I haul too much stuff and need to get around once at destination so flying is only what I do for short trips - day or two to three depending on how far... e.g. here to the coast I'll drive if three day trip but here to Oregon I'll fly if less than a week

    1000mi isn't torture for me at all in a car (I'm interested in much less on moto) as long as I can do it without stopping except for quick fill - essential not to kill the momentum... it's about as far as I want to go since it will involve more dark time driving than I prefer depending on the time of year but in my more youthful days with less [healthy] paranoia for nighttime driving I'd do more.... I can drive for a long way and used to do it very frequently for business... back in my sales days I'd do a trip from PHX through SAN, than up through the whole LA basin on to Santa Barbara, Santa Maria, back through the north side of the basin, through Riverside and then back to PHX a couple of times a month, PHX to LAS and PHX to ABQ once a month, PHX to Tucson every week I wasn't on the road elsewhere

    Before that I was a dangle-diver pilot and multi-sports fanatic and every weekend we were on the road - guess who was always nominated to drive no matter who's vehicle? :lol2 Would drive some of them a little crazy at first with my non-stop habits but once they got used to it they'd bring what they needed instead of relying on "pit stops" for food and drink and realized how far we'd get in so little time... they called me "the machine" (the "driving machine", the "flying machine", the "surfing machine", the "[moto] riding machine", etc.)

    I suppose renting is an option for longer trips but far from inexpensive (several hundred $$$) and it's much nicer to just load my vehicle and go... I'm thinking of doing this next year for a trip to Tahoe so I can rent a large cargo van to really bring some stuff (electric bikes, etc.) and have an easy place to rack out if need be...


    I still think the real future of EV's will not be lithium or anything like that, that perhaps it is more likely to be a fuel cell
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  6. T.S.Zarathustra

    T.S.Zarathustra Been here awhile

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    Steve AZ. I have looked into your requirements. I am sorry to have to tell you, that in reference to your stated needs, it is unlikely that electric vehicle to fulfill them will be available during your lifetime.
    The good news for other people, who don't feel the need to go from A to B without stopping and smelling the roses, is that there are plenty of EVs already available that suit a day trip of over 500 miles. And there are many more on the way.
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  7. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    With present technologies and infrastructure I agree... given time I'm not so sure... but how long?

    The four wheel vehicle I purchase next year will not be an EV unless I'm missing something

    Ten years when I get the next one, maybe? I'm hopeful... I realize it may be longer than that though...
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  8. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    The point people are making so politely is that nobody outside of your immediate family gives a flying fuck about your personal needs if they are vastly different from the majority of people out there. And no, there will be no fuel cells, it's a dead end.
  9. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    Well there

    Folks keep asking so I keep answering - politely too... that seems like a bit of over-the-top hostility for who knows why... might want to take it down a notch

    And I know plenty of folks with very similar needs - I tend to be more "driven" on the long hauls but not so different as far as requirements for many of the more sporting sorts out here in the southwest open spaces

    And just to remind... this is an "adventure" moto board and I'm betting there are plenty of others that actually engage in the activities promoted by this board that also have very similar requirements - on two wheels too!
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  10. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    Ok, I clearly forgot to add a few smilies :) just friendly teasing.
  11. wheresbaoskee

    wheresbaoskee Perpendicular to Everything

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    Ten years on will be interesting indeed.

    Though of you were looking 3-5 years out I'd imagine the "full size" trucks (Rivian et al) will have quite a bit of range capability.

    Don't recall if you specified no trucks though, so ymmv ... Literally and figuratively.

    Infrastructure probably won't be in your stated region by then though - unless some company pulls out some big surprises.
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  12. Bolzen

    Bolzen Been here awhile

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    If not this, then one of the next generations will either go back to horses or extinct. But they won't be able to burn oil or gas anymore.
  13. Cat0020

    Cat0020 El cheapo

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    Dude, you specified 1000 mi. day trips with 3-4 stops 5 minutes each; and you avoided answering to that specific question by giving vague answer of doing them "often enough".

    How many is "often enough"? once a week? once a month? be specific.
  14. OConnor

    OConnor Bad juju

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    Thanks suckers!

    But seriously, what are the EV/AV investments that will make me a billionaire?
  15. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    It's not like they're scheduled (part of the desire to just have a capable vehicle) - last year maybe four and this year only two that were in the 1000+ range. I think [hope] there may be more next year. I'm also looking at getting a very small travel trailer so will want something that can haul that. The 400-600mi are much more frequent and the norm.
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  16. Bama67

    Bama67 Cooler in real life

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    To me the only way electric will be viable is if they have the technology to shrink the battery pack down so that a person can easily remove it, and swap it in 5 minutes like a propane tank at the gas station.

    Current technology isn't even close to being viable for those of us that aren't city slickers.

    Also, what does one do during winter when the battery capacity is cut in half and I need to run the heater? A pure resistive load is gonna be pretty rough on the battery's range.
  17. 2old2Bbold

    2old2Bbold was 2bold2getold

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    Yeah, I don't see anything remotely close to a "tipping point" in this part of the world. Think I've seen maybe 2 or 3 EVs in the Dallas/Fort Worth area in the last few years. And that's an area that includes a population of 7,539,711 according to the U.S. Census. Granted I don't get out much but there are not a lot of em.
  18. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    The short answer is that winter cutting range in half is just plain false, and why on earth would anyone use resistive cabin heating?

    I got my EV - with the shortest range of any EV available in the US at 62 miles - when I had a commute that used up a good chunk of its range. I knew that winter could be iffy, and I was right. I lost maybe 10 - 20% range below freezing, which was not enough safety margin. So on cold days I took the gasser and my son used the EV as a station car to get to school by rail transit. I'm not at that job anymore. The EV satisfied my needs then with a slight adjustment, and it satisfies them now with none. We have two cars, only one needs to go long distances. You pick your ride depending on your needs.

    Hell, even back in the days of hobbyist EVs when you had to build your own using lead-acid golf cart batteries (which really sag in cold weather), some guys did fine just by insulating their packs. Regular use kept the pack nice and toasty. (Because any battery generates heat both during charge and discharge, and with that thermal mass, the pack would stay warm for days.) If that wasn't enough, they ran battery heaters too during charging.

    Now the manufacturers have caught on. (Slowly in some cases.) Current EVs all have some form of thermal battery management, some more successful than others. If it's an issue for you, research is your friend. This will continue evolving until it's a non-issue, just like refinement took awhile in ICEVs. Cold weather is only a problem if you allow it to be.

    My EV was one of the first available in the US and has resistive cabin heating. It knocks another 10 - 20% off the range, maybe 30% if you go nuts with it. That's why no one uses resistive heating anymore. Heat pumps are far more efficient, more like A/C. When I use A/C in the summer, the range impact is hardly noticeable.

    One of the countries with the highest EV adoption rate is Norway. I've read it can get chilly there, but somehow they get by.
  19. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    And in my neck of the woods it seems you can't swing a stick without hitting a Tesla. Fewer Leafs, even fewer i3s, the occasional Bolt. It's a rare outing that doesn't include an EV sighting or ten.

    Last I heard, Texas still doesn't allow Tesla to sell in their state. (Gotta protect all those old-school dealers that buyers so eagerly look forward to visiting when it's time for a new car. Seriously - when was the last time you bought a new car and didn't come away from the experience feeling like you needed a shower?) Cutting the supply off at the knees might have something to do with adoption rates.
  20. 2old2Bbold

    2old2Bbold was 2bold2getold

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    I've seen a couple Teslas and a couple of Leafs, one Volt, no Bolts ...that's about it. I had a Ford escape hybrid for several years. It worked ok but I didn't like the cv transmission on the highway. New car dealers are much better these days. The internet fixed that. Some of the dealerships have non commission sale staffs now. The bait and switch thing is about dead.