The tipping point is right around the corner.

Discussion in 'Shiny Things' started by MJSfoto1956, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. T.S.Zarathustra

    T.S.Zarathustra Been here awhile

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  2. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    Wow! Have someone told Tesla engineers?
  3. thumpism

    thumpism Between bikes

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    That's already being tested on UPS trucks, is it not?
  4. ninjamunky

    ninjamunky ¡Que buenos son! Supporter

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    It's already been done anyway. Tata Motors has had an air powered prototype car out for years now, I don't think they've actually sold any of them though. The top speed is like 65km/h and the range is not great.

    [​IMG]

    Plus according to wiki the efficiency is even worse than ICE, which is pretty impressive considering how bad the efficiency of internal combustion is.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_car
  5. T.S.Zarathustra

    T.S.Zarathustra Been here awhile

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  6. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    I'd like to see some math. Sounds totally implausible.
  7. T.S.Zarathustra

    T.S.Zarathustra Been here awhile

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  8. NikonsAndVStroms

    NikonsAndVStroms Beastly Photographer

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    But what's the energy density for compressed air? It might work for a light weight low power vehicle but how large of a tank would you need to get 300 miles in a 2500+lb car that can keep up with traffic?

    Edit: Also for consistent performance you'd want a constant pressure system which would add more size/weight.
  9. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    How long and how fast will the quadrupled Tata go?

    Also, you keep using this word, "algebra", it does not mean what you think it means.
  10. Andrew

    Andrew Optimus Primer Administrator Super Moderator

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    Lightsail Energy (a defunct startup in Berkeley) promised efficient storage of energy as compressed air, but utterly failed to deliver. Some bits of the story:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LightSail_Energy

    https://www.greentechmedia.com/arti...ergy-cheap-compressed-air-storage-hibernation

    https://www.greentechmedia.com/squa...e-failure-of-the-founder-narrative#gs.n=k=9qI
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  11. T.S.Zarathustra

    T.S.Zarathustra Been here awhile

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  12. ninjamunky

    ninjamunky ¡Que buenos son! Supporter

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    According to the Wiki article I linked earlier it's not a lot compared to gas and lithium ion batteries.

    Compressed air has relatively low energy density. Air at 30 MPa (about 4,350 psi) contains about 50 Wh of energy per liter (and normally weighs 372 g per liter).[citation needed] For comparison, a lead–acid battery contains 60-75 Wh/l. A lithium-ion battery contains about 250-620 Wh/l. The EPA estimates the energy density of gasoline at 8,890 Wh/l;[1] however, a typical gasoline engine with 18% efficiency can only recover the equivalent of 1694 Wh/l. The energy density of a compressed air system can be more than doubled if the air is heated prior to expansion.

    In order to increase energy density, some systems may use gases that can be liquified or solidified. "CO2 offers far greater compressibility than air when it transitions from gaseous to supercritical form."[2]
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  13. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    do show us the math.
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  14. Cromoth

    Cromoth fan of the magic carpet ride

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  15. dirt hokie

    dirt hokie Long timer

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    you guy are really missing the the "best" way. Just make cars sail powered. Problem solved...

    Really its all about energy density and efficiency. Right now nothing on the market can compare fossil fuel for energy density, so the alternatives must beat the hell out of IC in efficiency to have a chance, and right now, they cant.
    Compressed air is not a bad idea, it just suffers the same problems as the other alternates.
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  16. CodeMonkee

    CodeMonkee Geek Adventurer

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  17. T.S.Zarathustra

    T.S.Zarathustra Been here awhile

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  18. CodeMonkee

    CodeMonkee Geek Adventurer

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    Yeah - of all of the 'breakthroughs' in battery tech I do not recall many of them actually making it to market. But then that isn't my domain.
  19. iflysideways

    iflysideways Been here awhile

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    Maybe some element 115 tech might be the answer? Those pesky UFOs the USN had on hud video had no heat signature, not too much if any wasted energy. Looked like fun as a bonus.
  20. DCrider

    DCrider Live from THE Hill

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