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The tipping point is right around the corner.

Discussion in 'Shiny Things' started by MJSfoto1956, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. NikonsAndVStroms

    NikonsAndVStroms Beastly Photographer

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    So a pickup missing a good chunk of the bed? That's not going to work out too well....

    Honda are no slouches in engineering and I posted the cut away with the tank they used but here it is again:

    [​IMG]

    Compare that to the Tesla Model Y

    [​IMG]

    The battery pack is just part of the frame, the only thing going into the cabin there is the second motor in the rear.

    Plus you don't want a hydrogen container under people....



    In the rear it is safer than a gas tank but imagine that flame inside the cabin.


    But if you think it's practical answer these few questions:

    1) How will Americans react to losing a lot of cargo space? Giving up essentially their trunk to have a hydrogen tank there. When cars are designed from the ground up for batteries they don't face this.

    2) How would we provide the infrastructure needed to have H2 everywhere? The best high pressure liquid lines don't have much of a loss compared to other methods of transport but now you're talking about a huge network of pipelines across the country, then there would be all the filling stations. That would cost what trillions? It wouldn't be easy for stations to store it either because remember the tanks needed are much, much larger than the equivalent ones for gasoline so basically everything needs to be torn up. Also the amount of electricity needed would be higher due to losses of H2 from storage and the inefficiencies of using X power to first break up water molecules, and then to reform them.

    3) How do you make a market for it? Ramping up EV's is easy since charging stations just need to be connected to the pre-existing grid and that infrastructure has been growing in parallel to our existing gas station network.

    4) What's the advantage? You get less space per vehicle, they are still going to be very expensive with the fuel cells/batteries or require fuel tanks that are much, much larger for hydrogen combustion engines. And while they can "fill up" relatively quickly there are multiple promising battery technologies which can as well and even advancements of the current tech has seen large gains.

    5) Due to all of the above why would you as a country invest trillions for a technology which has essentially 0 market share VS one which has been growing rapidly for the last decade and has already had a lot of advancements in increased performance and cutting costs through that time and is on track to continue that trend?
  2. T.S.Zarathustra

    T.S.Zarathustra Been here awhile

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  3. magnussonh

    magnussonh Adventurer

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    "Flywheels". LOL. Made out of depleted uranium in a vacuum chamber. I guess. :lol3
    You forgot nuclear power. It can designed so you never have to add fuel. It can either last the lifetime of the vehicle, or be refueled during regular checks. No refueling stations needed.
    Since you've gotten this far, you could also add magic to the list.
    Also clockwork. A large spring, like a toy car, but bigger.
  4. MikeyT

    MikeyT Krusty Olde Pharte

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    This is the second time I have seen this: glass (i.e. silicone.) Glass is made from silicon, not silicone. Silicon is a major ingredient in silicone, it's true, but they are NOT the same thing. 50 lashes with a wet noodle for you.
  5. Tmaximusv

    Tmaximusv Long timer

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    @T.S.Zarathustra suggesting that the bros who love their pickups give ANY of up the bed EVER means you have no real understanding of the breed. Even so, adding a hydrogen tank to the bed completely destroys the purpose of a pickup in the first place.

    That said, I live in part of the world where pickups are USED CONSTANTLY to feed the rest of the world. They are also used to haul very large trailers full of very large and weighty animals, sometimes hundreds of miles to market (at which the producer frequently takes an economic loss). Not one single suggestion posed by any of the alternative energy sources can meet the energy needs of this purpose.

    Likewise, the movement of materials across this very, very large country cannot be done by electric, hydrogen, LP, CNG or solar. Please don’t suggest rail transport. We’ve pulled up thousands of miles of rail because it wasn’t flexible enough to distribute goods. It moves large quantities of bulky items to distribution hubs at moderate speeds, stopping only to change crews. At the hubs the goods are offloaded onto trucks for final delivery.

    Electric semis from Tesla can work in an urban setting, but nowhere else when drivers are paid by the mile and regulated out of the ability to drive those miles as it is. Self driving trucks might be the solution here, but that whole thing scares the daylights out of me as a motorcycle rider.

    Every single European friend of mine is bewildered at the sheer scale of the US. Many who have visited want to see Yellowstone and New York in the same road trip. Never going to happen.

    Alternative fuels and mass transit work for city dwellers. It’s useless in the rest of the country where food is produced.
  6. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    I blame the autosuggest :)
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  7. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    And the final delivery can be done on electric trucks - so what's the problem here?
  8. HuntWhenever

    HuntWhenever Motorcicle Commuter

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    During a discussion at work I mentioned that semi trucks should be able to park in those "Fuel Efficient Vehicles Only" parking spots when they're running bob-tail. They get a lot better fuel economy than a Honda Civic trying to pull 80,000 lbs down the road. Even if you broke that load up into 80 separate trips with 1,000 lbs each with the Civic, the semi truck is more efficient in its one trip.
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  9. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

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    Several trucking companies have depots about 200 to 300 miles apart on the interstates, basically half an allowed driving day. Drivers hot seat, they do not have assigned trucks. The trucks will not have sleepers. you drive from one terminal and park the truck where it is recharged. Then you take your break and get in another truck and drive home. Home most every night, boring but you are home every night. Then freight will be delivered from these terminals. When recharge is completed, a different drive climbs in the truck that was just charged and it continues on to the next terminal.

    Would be great for WalMart. Drive truck to store, park and plug it in. Then after any breaks you drive an empty truck back. Boring but you are home every night.

    Rod
  10. T.S.Zarathustra

    T.S.Zarathustra Been here awhile

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  11. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    Someone got their panties in a bunch, huh? I simply missed it, but the math is silly. Interestingly enough you never react when I disprove your silly claims, so you are projecting here...
  12. T.S.Zarathustra

    T.S.Zarathustra Been here awhile

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  13. Tmaximusv

    Tmaximusv Long timer

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    :thumbup@T.S.Zarathustra In strictest terms, it is called ad-hominem and is the lowest form of argument.

    Thank you.
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  14. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    Look, I really don't want to harp on you too harshly, but don't try to be condescending to your intellectual superiors, it rarely ends well. The math is silly because it is trying to solve the exponential equations with linear arithmetics - it does not account for the increased weight which requires even more energy to move around, which requires even more weight, etc. It's like saying if only I triple the motor and the battery on my electric bicycle, I could run with LiveWire. How is it not obvious?
  15. theregulator

    theregulator Shut Up and Ride Supporter

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    That's a bold statement, especially if you and T.S. aren't personally acquainted......
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  16. Tmaximusv

    Tmaximusv Long timer

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    Claims of intellectual superiority are very rarely accurate. Truth be told, I’ve never experienced a situation in which a claimant to the condition has accurately assessed themselves. I do know a lot and have a lot of experience and would never make such a claim because there is SOOOOOOOO much I know I don’t know.
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  17. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    It's a generally applicable statement. The following explanation, combined with the quoted attempt at condescension, is the supporting evidence.
  18. Tmaximusv

    Tmaximusv Long timer

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    whoosh.
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  19. Yamarocket630

    Yamarocket630 Honey Badger

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    It's like a romantic comedy. Will they? Won't they? Whos going to pay for dinner and the hourly hotel room?
  20. Murf2

    Murf2 Long timer

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    Tune in next week for another episode of “My Brains Bigger Than Yours”.
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