This is "Spock"

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by Da Bear, Aug 31, 2019.

  1. sh0rtlife

    sh0rtlife Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,840
    Location:
    20 mins west of portland oregon
    i figured that was about where you are, and since i shoot across sellwood whenever i need to head anywhere in portland your close by as far as im concerned lol
    #61
    Night_Wolf and Da Bear like this.
  2. Da Bear

    Da Bear Twisted toy maker

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,462
    Location:
    Milwaukie, Oregon. The Great North Wet
    I'm not familiar with ATV's and quads at all; so I'm going to be asking some what may to a few, seem like stupid questions.
    There's a Honda Trx450r Subframe on E-Bay right now; since I have no idea if it's what I need, I'm asking those of you who might.
    Doesn't look like it to me, as there's no shock mounts, but hey, what do I know?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/04-05-Hond...a=0&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982

    #62
  3. Bt10

    Bt10 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2012
    Oddometer:
    942
    Location:
    Saranac,MI
    That looks like a rear subframe. Not really what you need.
    #63
  4. Da Bear

    Da Bear Twisted toy maker

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,462
    Location:
    Milwaukie, Oregon. The Great North Wet
    #64
    JagLite likes this.
  5. Bt10

    Bt10 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2012
    Oddometer:
    942
    Location:
    Saranac,MI
    Yes good find
    #65
    JagLite likes this.
  6. Da Bear

    Da Bear Twisted toy maker

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,462
    Location:
    Milwaukie, Oregon. The Great North Wet
    Now to raise the cash to buy one. This, I think, will be the costliest piece on the build; however the time and effort it saves makes it a good trade off. Keeping the frame geometry will also aid in wheel alignment, steering and most of all, the owners manual I have to put together to keep track of part numbers and the like.
    DBW has a question: With two front wheels, and two sets of brakes on the front end, will that lessen the stopping distance, and/or increase the machines inclination to flip when someone grabs a big hand full of front brake.
    My inclination is to say yes..
    Opinions?
    #66
    JagLite likes this.
  7. JagLite

    JagLite Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2010
    Oddometer:
    7,752
    Location:
    Anchorage Alaska
    If using the same calipers and rotors as the bike had the change is really only double the contact footprint.
    And even then, with similar weight, each tire will be carrying half the load as the bike front wheel...
    So it should be a wash.
    It will make doing stoppies easier to control :D
    #67
    Night_Wolf likes this.
  8. sh0rtlife

    sh0rtlife Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,840
    Location:
    20 mins west of portland oregon
    me personaly i wouldnt want to try and do this without that front frame section of course you only really need the front half of that, 2 fold reasoning, 1 is you maintain geometry as well as all the mounting points, secondly you need pretty much ZERO materials at that point its all "parts"

    youd basicly marry the 2 frames either using the stock quad stem mounts and lopping off the head stock of the bike or cutting down the quad frame more and stuffing the stem into the stipple stem, personaly i prefer the former than the latter as it helps maintain the steering geo

    as for braking, since you want to run bike tires, and your not "doubling the brakes" but in fact "splitting" them youll simply have more "traction" as far as flip worthyness that varys from bike to bike, as in how far forward the engine is how heavey the tail is how much rake angle you have etc

    best way to think about it is a seesaw, the more weight you have on one end the higher the other goes, your wheels are the ends and the "piviot" point is the center of the engine, however with bike tires your more likely to make them slide LONG before youve got enough oomf to lift the tail, shure youll probably "un-squat" the tail but i doubt youd ever get it to lift off the ground, god knows my zr7s(updated gpz) will slide the front out if you grab too much and doesnt hardly lift the rear suspension
    #68
  9. sh0rtlife

    sh0rtlife Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,840
    Location:
    20 mins west of portland oregon
    id say if you were doing this with say a 250 ninja or something like that then be prepared for serrious stopies but since your working with a big heavy then forgetabout it
    #69
    Bt10 and Da Bear like this.
  10. JagLite

    JagLite Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2010
    Oddometer:
    7,752
    Location:
    Anchorage Alaska
    If that is the same year as the a-arms you bought it is ideal.
    I would suggest going online for atv salvage yards and send a request for ALL the parts you need, frame, a-arms, shocks, hubs, brakes, steering stem, tie rods, etc. and get a package price shipped to your door. (minus the parts you have of course).
    A lot of the parts you want are very low demand items so a salvage yard might have many of them sitting around taking up space.

    If you contact as many salvage yards as possible you can negotiate a package price that will save you a lot of time, money, and frustration fitting things together.
    Even a model change from one year to the next can mean completely different parts.

    I would tell them what you are building, and why, and that this is a very low budget project and ask if they can help.
    give them the link to this thread when asking for their help so they can see you are not making things up about your budget.
    Many people enjoy helping others when they can.
    They may give you a fantastic deal.

    Are you watching CL for atv projects?
    Possibly one with a dead engine that you could sell the parts you don't need?
    #70
    Da Bear likes this.
  11. Da Bear

    Da Bear Twisted toy maker

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,462
    Location:
    Milwaukie, Oregon. The Great North Wet
    My A Arms are off an '07, so I can use a frame from '04 - '07. Still have to get that stator done. We're working under a carport open on three sides, and the weather here hasn't been cooperating. Had a close strike with lightning today, about 1/2 mile away. Being under a metal carport made me a weeee bit nervous.
    #71
    Night_Wolf and JagLite like this.
  12. JagLite

    JagLite Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2010
    Oddometer:
    7,752
    Location:
    Anchorage Alaska
    Lightning + metal carport + metal motorcycle = :yikes
    #72
    Night_Wolf likes this.
  13. sh0rtlife

    sh0rtlife Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,840
    Location:
    20 mins west of portland oregon
    weathers been fun eh, my shops all steel but im surrounder by tall trees, ive fond memorys of working out of a carport, i dont miss it LOL

    correct me if im wrong but you ordered arms with spindles and rods, so your missing frame section and stem right? as the quad shocks imo would end up being too weak for the added weight of the bike, if so then your best off just grabbing frame when you can find one cheeper, you dont need one with a title
    #73
  14. Da Bear

    Da Bear Twisted toy maker

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,462
    Location:
    Milwaukie, Oregon. The Great North Wet
    Exactly. I just need a frame. Hell, the back end can be crunched as far as I'm concerned. I only need the front half...
    Edit:
    So, I contacted IRC_powersports, the guys on EBay I bought the arms from, and explained what we're doing here (Let's face it, this has become a group project) I asked about frames, and he messaged me back withing the hour!
    Yes, he has frames. I got his number and we're going to discuss what he wants for a usable front frame.
    Louis is going to figure out what the shipping is going to cost, and we'll work out a price for the frame from there.
    Great guy. He's made a customer out of me. Check out what he's got on Ebay....
    As for the shocks; I'd given thought to that, with someone even suggesting using a set of rear shocks from the same bike. I admit, I'm warming to that idea. Adjustable air shocks on the front. I like idea of being able to lift the bike a bit, it intrigues me, as it's been ages since I took a bike down any sort of road or trail that wasn't paved, and there are some great fire and forestry roads around these parts.
    Bike camping again!
    Marti (DaBearWife) is already drawing plans for a trailer with removable pods.. One for camping, one for hauling, one for taking our wares to vending events. Just put the pod on a flat bed frame and you're off. Change the pods as needed...
    She's looking forward to getting her endorsement so she can ride this.
    #74
    JagLite and Night_Wolf like this.
  15. sh0rtlife

    sh0rtlife Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,840
    Location:
    20 mins west of portland oregon
    heres something youll need to consider..atleast a little bit, any rear shock from a bike will do, in fact will do better than the stock quad fronts..tho the 450s front shocks are quite something nice just dont consider running a "car" shock its going to be valved all wrong and end up too stiff as the "leverage" isnt there the bonus of rear bike shocks is major adjustability depending on the source bike

    as far as something with air..sure but you need to keep in mind lift/lower comes with a change of suspension angle/alignment, so when you do your final setup set your alignment to the position you will use the bike in the most WITH YOUR WEIGHT ON IT!!!!!!, it will probably feel fine lifted offroad as your not likely to notice the change in adjustment while in the gravel/dirt like you would on the pavement , bonus points for running bike tires is that due to the round nature of them your likely to notice the change even less than you would on say car tires

    something to consider...if you went with say...a pair of xr250 front wheels,or something that could be swapped out with a dirt bike set of wheels, you could pack a set of 3 wheels with you to a camp site drop the pod and swap out to your offroad wheels, im not sure what size your wheels are right now but hey maybe you could down the road score a second full set to toss 50/50 rubber onto or something, i only bring it up cause you mentioned offroad, and its something i LOVE about my 83 xl600r and 84xr250, i have 1 set of sand, 2 sets of knobs, 1 set of pure street and 1 set of 50/50, and i can swap em out all willynilly on the fly in 5 mins to either bike without messing with the brakes as every set has a rotor/drum on it..and yeah the 250 is plated too..i gave up on browns ages ago ..me n my wife love diamond mill
    #75
    JagLite and Da Bear like this.
  16. rantingsmith

    rantingsmith Quadrilingual blacksmith seat of pants engineer

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    Oddometer:
    391
    Location:
    UK for now but not from here
    I'm glad this is all shaping up, you have help from a couple of great guys there. I too think the rear shocks of the same bike would be a great idea with the possibility of adjusting for off road sections on the fly. I have been toying with the same idea for my sidecar build, not so much to go tearing down dirt roads but because I have a section of dirt track to and from the house to get to the road..

    I didn't know the Vulcan came with air shocks. Could you check the dimensions on it for me next time you get a chance? Eye to eye length and width at the widest point? It might offer a possibility for my chair or tug, as I am restricted not only for length but width also.

    Cheers,

    Rant.
    #76
    Da Bear and JagLite like this.
  17. sh0rtlife

    sh0rtlife Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,840
    Location:
    20 mins west of portland oregon
    youll probably also wan the eye width as well as bushing ID

    it doesnt look like its got air....tho..according to the web its got 7 way adjustables tho. if thats the case get another set and toss em on the front

    edit
    before you finish out the deal with the guy on the quad frame see if he has you another wheel and shocks for your build, if hes a dissmantler he just might, might have the stem your missing as well
    #77
    Da Bear and JagLite like this.
  18. Bt10

    Bt10 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2012
    Oddometer:
    942
    Location:
    Saranac,MI
    I wouldn't give up on front shocks so quickly. If you have em, try em first. Most are at least adjustable for preload. You might be fine with just more sag than a quad. Also, some quads weigh even more than your bike, so there may be more appropriate choices for front shocks. Hopefully someone with quad front spring knowledge will chime in. I probably wouldn't go above a 19" front wheel, just so it doesn't look like those stupid harley 30"er baggers. Just my 2 cents. Watching, and good luck.
    #78
    JagLite likes this.
  19. Da Bear

    Da Bear Twisted toy maker

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,462
    Location:
    Milwaukie, Oregon. The Great North Wet
    With shipping, I can have the frame for $212.00. I'm not sure what's in the fund right now, I'll find out in a bit.
    I'm planing on going stock 750 Vulcan. My only foreseeable issue with that is the width of the hub, as opposed to the length of the spindle...
    #79
    Night_Wolf and JagLite like this.
  20. Da Bear

    Da Bear Twisted toy maker

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,462
    Location:
    Milwaukie, Oregon. The Great North Wet
    Frame ordered. Have to wait on anything else right now. Only $30.00 left in the fund.
    Bu this is really happening! I never thought I'd be back out there. I know that at least you people know how I feel about that...
    #80
    JagLite and Night_Wolf like this.