Thoughts on Electric Motorcycles?

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by Designer Jake, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    We're talking about electric motorcycles.
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  2. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    I think we're talking about two different things. On an e-bike generally a system voltage is chosen and the motor, controller and battery pack are sized accordingly. If you later swap out the pack you stay pretty close to the system voltage because the motor and controller are designed to it. Limiting power is done with current limit in the controller, which, at the power levels in e-bikes is usually done in software. Or in some cases like the Bafang BBSxx drives, by upgrading the FETs in the controller to hotrod it.

    A BMS acts at the cell or parallel group level, both of which are at a known voltage. If you swap the pack with new tech that has a different voltage per cell, changes must be made. Preferably in software.
  3. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    Actually the conversation has bounced between e-bikes and EMs.

    The same concept holds true with EMs, if a bit more cumbersome. Battery packs are assemblies that come out as a unit. Better battery tech will generally provide more power and/or range in a smaller package, so it just needs to be adapted to the original enclosure. If the OEM doesn't do that, the aftermarket will or you'll likely be able to find a forum where instructions are posted. There should be no need to scrap a nice EM just because the pack is tired and uses cells that are obsolete.

    Edit: There are some OEM EVs that use limited-availability cells. Zero uses some sort of pouch cell that may or may not have a commercial equivalent. Tesla has used garden-variety 18650 cells (soon to be changing to a larger, but still commercially available format). OEM BMSs are probably not adjustable, but if you stay with the same chemistry the cell voltage stays the same.

    One question that will come up is whether the vehicle will sense a non-factory pack and brick itself. That's a whole different conversation....
  4. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer

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  5. Gone Troppo

    Gone Troppo Somewhat bemused observer Supporter

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    Too bad if you bought last year's model....there is a lesson there...
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  6. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    Sure. It's a lesson that many of us learned before, so we should be accustomed to this new-yet-familiar situation.

    EVs are advancing at a rate pretty close to the PC in the '80s. It was well known then that if you bought a PC, prices would continue to plunge so much that even waiting a couple of months would get you a much better deal.

    And yet people continued to buy, knowing that would happen. EVs are different in that they don't present a new capability that doesn't exist elsewhere - you can still get around in an ICE vehicle. But early adopters are still buying and driving the rapid tech advances. If a new EM gives you sticker shock, look around for a used one. You won't get the latest tech, but if it does what you need the discounts can be huge.

    That's how I got my electric car.
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  7. scorch

    scorch Poser

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    The nissan leaf can be bought for 5k to 10k on the used market with 20k to 50k miles. Pretty incredible. But i've heard their battery range is terrible.
  8. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer

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    2018 Alta Redshift EX Review
    https://www.cycleworld.com/2018-alta-redshift-ex-review

    "While riding over rocks and other obstacles, the Alta can creep to a near halt and still keep the rear wheel tracking. Just when you think the rear wheel might break loose and start spinning, the bike continues to track forward and hook up."

    "The Redshift EX chassis does several things very well. First, the bike is incredibly easy to balance. For example, when riding on a tight, technical trail at very slow speed, it’s easy to keep your feet up and continue motoring along. The bike also has great straight-line stability and is predictable at higher speeds."

    "With a quiet, torquey, and fast electric-powered engine, compliant and versatile WP suspension, and a chassis that has a noteworthy combination of good cornering ability, confidence-inspiring straight-line stability, and ease of balance when riding at slow speeds."
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  9. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer

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    And something completely different for the millennial city dweller. Not fast with a top speed of around 30 mph, comparable to a Ruckus. Coming to the US later this year. https://www.ujet.com/en/

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  10. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    About as fast as my electric bicycle, but much heavier and more expensive. What's the point?
  11. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer

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    What's the point of any motorcycle or scooter? Sure, they are transportation but mainly we own them because we want to. Logic only matters to a point. A Casio is less bulky, costs less, and keeps time just as well as a Rolex.

    To answer your question though, I'd say speed appropriate for dense urban environments, campuses, or retirement communities without peddling, 90+ mile range, fast charge times, foldability for storage, rolling bike & battery make the weight irrelevant, easy to fit in your car, motorhome, yacht, or airplane, integration with smartphones (map functions, Bluetooth speaker, USB charging, antitheft, etc.), innovative drive and braking technology, and unique style will make it attractive to some.

    [​IMG]
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  12. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    If this gets produced and sold in the US for a reasonable price, I think it could be a hit. I like it’s ability to fold and the option to detach and roll the seat/batteries (or the entire bike itself)

    I signed up on their site to be kept up to date as my daughter wants an electric scooter to commute to and from school.
  13. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer

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  14. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    ^I'd buy it. How much?
  15. Jay_In_Milpitas

    Jay_In_Milpitas Zero to sixty in February

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    Website says about 14,000 Euros base.
  16. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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  17. Jay_In_Milpitas

    Jay_In_Milpitas Zero to sixty in February

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    Alta. Zero. A - Z, chuckle.
    Won't be long before rider talk around the coffee shops centers around pulse width modulation and regenerative capacity.
  18. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer

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    It's almost like motorcycling is reinventing itself. You can't open a web browser without finding out about a new electric bicycle or motorcycle. Everyone in getting in on battery power.

    In 1910 there was at least 37 different makes of motorcycles being made in the US alone. They were: Harley-Davidson, Indian, A. M. C., Eagle, M. & M., Thor, Black Hawk, Bradley, Yale, Crawford, Dayton, Emblem, DeLuxe, Excelsior, Feilbach Ltd., Henderson, Monarch, Thiem, Iver Johnson, Flying Merkel, Militaire, Minneapolis, Michaelson, M.B., Pierce, Pope, Reading Standard, Schickel, Waverly Medland, Curtiss, N.F.U., Jefferson, Breed, Corson Special, and the Hefelfinger. Now there are two of significance. I expect the same will happen with a lot of the electric startups.
  19. MeinMotorrad

    MeinMotorrad Long timer

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    What are people's thoughts on the future of bike manufacturers? I have a feeling that the likes of Zero and Alta maybe don't have one if Honda, Suzuki, BMW etc. jump into this market in a big way (as they surely must). I wonder if the smaller firms like, KTM, Triumph etc may even be put out of business as we move into an era of two wheels and a battery.
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  20. Jay_In_Milpitas

    Jay_In_Milpitas Zero to sixty in February

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    In some ways, China is already ahead of the game. Some cities in China do not allow internal combustion vehicles so the streets are awash with electric scooters and utility trikes.