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Thoughts on Electric Motorcycles?

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by Designer Jake, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. CanadianRocky

    CanadianRocky No Bucket List... a Bucket full of Lists

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    Statistics don't lie, but you can lie with statistics.

    Sure, 218 mph top speed, but I want to see it actually travel 218 miles in one hour.

    Actually, if you run the math, its average speed to get to that 218 miles, is just around 40 mph.

    This will go around 40 mph....

    venice_14.jpg
  2. High Country Herb

    High Country Herb Adventure Connoiseur

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    For me, its about time to recharge. If I could get 100 miles worth of charge in 10 minutes, I'd be happy with that. Combine that with a 150 mile range, and you are free to roam about the country.

    More range would be better, but charge time is the ticket.
  3. CanadianRocky

    CanadianRocky No Bucket List... a Bucket full of Lists

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    If I could get about 4 hrs riding at 60 mph, and then charge it for an hour, and then get the same again, then I could tour with it.

    The problem is going to be getting it charged at lunch time and again at night. Camping is out, unless there is 110 volts at the campsite.

    It has to be more than fun and green transportation, it also has to be practical transportation.
  4. LowInSlo

    LowInSlo Been here awhile

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    There's the ticket for many of us. For the majority of commutes, electric bikes and cars are already there. And I agree, 100 miles (or so), 10, even 15 minute recharge for another 100 miles, a nice break from time to time and very doable.
  5. 81forest

    81forest ADDRider

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    Why does it have to be "practical transportation?" I still think we're missing the point a bit. This is a 289 lb dual sport bike with 70 foot pounds of INSTANT torque. I could be pretty happy with a dirt bike that only has a 100 mile range (on one battery), but goes 158,000 miles before it needs any type of service (new battery), and costs about 2 bucks to ride single track all day. 100 miles not enough range? Bring a spare battery.

    It's always easy to point out the shortcomings, there are plenty. But imagine riding your favorite trails... in silence. You hear the pine needles crunching under the tires. You never think about jetting, exhaust upgrades, valve adjustments, top end rebuild, nothing. Just riding a massive wave of torquey wheel power everywhere. And these motors are rated for 1 million miles of service.

    I frigging want one.

    [​IMG]
  6. CanadianRocky

    CanadianRocky No Bucket List... a Bucket full of Lists

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    Because that is how most of us ride. Right now it is a niche market, and most of us don't do niche.
    scooterscott likes this.
  7. DirtMedic

    DirtMedic Intrepid Explorer

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    .
  8. 81forest

    81forest ADDRider

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    Who's "us"? The world market? Or enthusiasts? I guess I'm really marching to a different drummer here then, because every one of my bikes could be considered "niche", and I certainly didn't choose them for the most practical transportation. If you only have one bike, and you have specific requirements for that one bike, then EVs may not be for you. But it's silly to discount them in general because they don't do what a DR650 can do.
  9. PeterW

    PeterW Long timer

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    It's NOT $2 to ride single track every day. You left off the fuel bill for the truck you drove it to and from the single track on. Probably around $50 for a days ride. And I know you didn't ride it to the single track - cos if you did and did a days ride you'd have been walking home.

    That's the issue I have with E-toys. Right now I have one bike, it'll do everything I want to do, commute, tour, easy dirt - the E-Bikes , well, O.K. they work, sortof, in a half-assed way for a commuter or a toy, but it'll be a real long time before they are viable as an adventure bike. I can be 200k's from the nearest gas station and handle that with a 4l fuel can in the top box. E-Bike ?, well I suppose I could set up a 250W solar panel and wait a month to ride out.

    Pete
  10. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer

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    You are marching to a different drummer, might even be dancing or running naked instead of marching in step with the regiment.

    This is ADVRider. Folks here druel over farkled KLRs, Triumph Scramblers, and all things comfortable and practical. Things must look a certain way and fit tidily into categories. Bikes are sport bikes, adventure bikes, sport-touring bikes, or cruisers. People must dress up like Charlie and Ewan. Electric bikes are just too different and hard to categorize. Toys are frowned upon.
  11. 81forest

    81forest ADDRider

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    Cool, you only need one bike, not for you then. As far as fuel costs for getting to the trails in the truck, those are still there when I trailer in my ICE dirt bike. So yes, it costs $2.00 to ride single track all day on the bike (according to the manufacturer), compared to $10-$15 to ride the ICE in just gas cost (add in oil and all the other maintenance costs later.) But it's not even about that. It's about the ride and what they can do. I think anyone that actually gets a chance to really thrash around on one will come away with a different point of view.

    Here's a video I took of the modified Zero-based prototype we rode at the track. The Zero rider is dicing it up with the event organizer on his Husaberg 650, probably the most powerful gas-powered bike you're going to see at a supermoto track. The 'berg rider is a very fast rider, within a few seconds of the fastest guys of the weekend. What was amazing to me was that the Zero took the 'berg in the straight stretch, you can see it in the video. That goofy little e-toy puts about a bike length on the monster thumper, at wide open throttle.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/GGHzs-HVVIg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  12. 81forest

    81forest ADDRider

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    :lol3:freaky
  13. CanadianRocky

    CanadianRocky No Bucket List... a Bucket full of Lists

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    Motorcycles by there very nature impractical and limiting.

    And that makes most of them toys. I know very few people who own a car and a bike, where the bike is not a toy. (in the first world)

    Good, toys are fun. And we should have fun. I embrace fun, and have a lot of it on my motorcycle.

    But, when I get up to go to work tomorrow, and if it is raining, I would walk right past my motorcycle and get in my Jeep. It would not matter if the bike was gas powered or electric powered. Or nuclear powered. Or coal powered.

    Oh, by the way, every electric vehicle in North America is either Nuclear powered, Coal powered or powered by flooded valley bottoms. A very tiny, tiny, bit of it comes from wind and solar.

    And if we every have most of our vehicles powered by Electricity, we will have created an entire new set of problems that we either do not have now, or only have in a reduced way.

    This is the thing the E-nuts seem to forget. Because most of them still think Electricity just comes out of the wall, and just do not understand Large Numbers.
  14. CanadianRocky

    CanadianRocky No Bucket List... a Bucket full of Lists

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    Posers and Movie Stars, who could not even read a weather map which would have showed them that traveling across Russia in early summer would have meant they would have needed a truck to cross rivers.

    Two or Three support vehicles?? Give me a break.

    I put as much validity into what they did as I do on "Survivors" and "Ice Road Truckers". Nice TV for the Walter Mittys of the world.

    Although nice exposure for UNICEF and BMW. I do wonder how the landscape would now look for KTM if they has said yes?
  15. Wraith Rider

    Wraith Rider Banned

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    Because I ride my bike to work every day (24 miles one way at 100...150mph) as well as on 250 miles day trips or if I want to get to a place 350 miles away in 4 hours as well as up to 500 miles a day on a holiday trip. The short range of 100...150 miles with my fossil powered bike are already a bit of a pain in the ass, but at least she's filled up in 5 minutes.
  16. 81forest

    81forest ADDRider

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    I totally admit to not understanding Large Numbers. And I enjoyed Long Way Round. Like I said, different drummer I guess.

    :drif
  17. CanadianRocky

    CanadianRocky No Bucket List... a Bucket full of Lists

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    I never said I didn't enjoy it. I also enjoyed Long Way Down.

    I also have watched and got a kick out of Ice Road Truckers. But knowing what I do about driving big rigs in northern Canada, I know it is all TV, and has little real substance.

    What I said was, that it has little validity. Just like Ice Road Truckers.....

    Here are some big numbers, not Large Ones.

    There are about a Billion vehicles on earth. Total world wide production is about 100 million a year. There are about 100,000 electric vehicles built a year. All of those are approximations and some are off by a bit. I did that just to make the estimates easier.

    So, if they increased world wide production of electric vehicles to 10% of total production, that would mean they would have to increase production of Electrical cars to 10 million, that is an increase of 10,000% in production in just the first year. That would take an enourmuse investment by the Auto Industry to accomplish that. They would not be able to handle the dollars, so it would take a huge infusion of Government money to do it.

    Now, if you went to 20% the next year, 30 the following, etc, etc. It would still take 10 years to completely change the manufacturing of petrol cars to E-cars.

    It would still take another 10 years of production to replace all of the petrol cars. It is not unreasonable to think that would actually take 30 to 40years.

    That means that you would have to not only build an industry that would be supplying the batteries to the vehicles, but you would also have to build an industry to deal with a billion dead batteries every 10 or so years. At a cost of Trillions of dollars, and a huge hit to the environment.

    Never mind the cost of decommissioning every refinery, every gas station, every pipeline. At the cost of Trillions of dollars.

    Never mind the 1,000 or so Nuclear power plants you would have to build to run those cars. at the cost of 10's of Trillions of dollars.

    Never mind the strip mining you would have to do to get the material for the grids to distribute the power to the end users. At the cost of huge pollution and the destruction of a significant portion of our planet. And Trillions of more dollars.

    But it just comes out the wall, right?......
  18. 81forest

    81forest ADDRider

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    ^^^ I see your point. I really don't have any answers about how a new technology like EVs would integrate into the existing market, and certainly don't claim that they are a panacea for an impending energy crisis. As you described, it's a cluster fuck with many more problems than solutions.

    But something has to happen, unless we can get that algae-to-biofuels thing going. The fossil fuels are gonna run out. Soon. Bio-fueled diesel seemed like a possible scenario at one point, I have no idea if that's still on the table because I don't really know much about this stuff.

    I just love where motorcycles have gotten to at this point. We are at a zenith of performance right now for the ICE bikes. You can buy an affordable production machine with 180 horsepower, and with electronics that allow you to actually control it. Bikes that we can ride faster than anything we could have imagined even 10 years ago. Is that practical? Certainly not, and if we really became objective, in the context of responsible energy consumption, we would conclude that no one needs it.

    Where that leaves us, I don't know. Do we say goodbye to ultra high performance machines that regular folks can afford to operate, in the near future? I don't know, I hope not. But the high end E-bike manufacturers are trying to match that level of ICE bike performance, and worry about range and distance and charge time and infrastructure for later. It's boutique, it's niche, that is true. But it is awesome, and the technology that emerges in the next few years could very well be the platform for the future of high performance motorcycling.

    For fuck's sake I sound like a shareholder presentation. :puke1
  19. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer

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    And my beef comes on Styrofoam wrapped in plastic.

    We're all doomed anyway for one reason or another. Might as well have some fun in the interim. You save the planet by burning fossil fuels. I'll go play on a stealthy, torque monster e-bike.
  20. Wraith Rider

    Wraith Rider Banned

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    For 50 years now it's said that fossil fuels are gonna run out in 30 to 40 years. It's called the fossil fuel constant. If we do NOT have anything on this planet, it's an energy "production" problem.

    To me it very much is. But maybe that depends on how you define "practicality". For me practicality isn't strongly related to engine power. (However, fun is, and since to me a vehicle is only practical if I have fun with her, the relation might be stronger than I would admit.)