tilt, linear actuator replacement

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by twintwin, May 9, 2016.

  1. Bobmws

    Bobmws Curmudgeon At Large

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,816
    Location:
    Same trailer, different park, FL
    I find I mostly adjust it on a 3 lane interstate where the passing lane is crowned toward the median while the 2 other lanes are crowned toward the berm.
    #21
  2. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    11,973
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Claude and Bob yes I know, I love the way the swaybar works ! I drove home on mine when I broke the rocker tower, I would not be surprised if the swaybar broke and have a piece of chromoly standing by .
    #22
    Bobmws likes this.
  3. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Oddometer:
    5,756
    Location:
    Middleburg, Pa. (Snyder County)
    As said before that was the first one of those we have had fail. Many have been abused over a long period of time but I guess you were the 'lucky one'. I do not see a need to go with moly and if your welded is not on his toes that could even create other issues. In any case send me the bill if you wish. As many of you know we have gone to a CNC machined tower now as it does cut down on fab time and also allows the swingarm pivot axle to be placed in various holes to maintain a decent swingarm angle for various applications related to desired ride height.
    tilt adjustor 2015.jpg
    #23
    Carl Childers, Bobmws and xrocket like this.
  4. twintwin

    twintwin Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Oddometer:
    932
    Location:
    NL
    Exactly, and even more when you travel loaded with a monkey on an highway, electric tilt make in my opinion a big difference, and ease the effort on the handlebar. The travel range would be a couple inches from the neutral lean out setting, so a total of 4 inches would be enough.
    #24
    Bobmws likes this.
  5. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    11,973
    Location:
    Minnesota
    The moly is for a new swaybar Claude ! I wish I had marked it like a race axle as I'm certain to have induced a fair amount of twist in it already ! I like the new idea allot. My post was confusing ! The next time I'm in PA your buying lunch !
    #25
    Bobmws and claude like this.
  6. Carl Childers

    Carl Childers Ghost in the Machine

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Oddometer:
    6,179
    Location:
    Northern New Mexico

    That design was tits and weenies for my project!
    #26
  7. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad Former World's Foremost Authority Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Oddometer:
    13,881
    Location:
    Omicron Persei 8
    Don't get me started on 4130 welding, heat treating, and/or normalizing!
    #27
    claude likes this.
  8. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    11,973
    Location:
    Minnesota
    The HP boys bend and fit their swaybars and then heat treat so obviously someone does it !
    #28
  9. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Oddometer:
    5,756
    Location:
    Middleburg, Pa. (Snyder County)
    Some HP guys do many do not do the heat treat deal. You are repeating what you read on the HP site written by Bill B. Welding Moly is apart from that. Years ago moly race car frames were either heli arc welded (tig) or welded with a torch....many were normalized in an oven. The old school torch welders got by fine without this as they would bascally normalize things with technique. Then many got away from the ovens and the torches and began welding them using moly rods and found that this was not a good thing and many were hurt from cages failing and such. Then things went to MIG with some which was a disaster. Finally things went to TIG using a mild steel rod and all was okay. So....I think Strong Bad with his racing experience and I probably have been on the same boat over the years here and there from what he posted earlier LOL.
    BTW we have only had one swaybar fail and that was from being abused for a few days in mexico with basically no suspension on the sidecar ..... great test for sure and I was more than happy even though it was a bad situation. This was with slacker and the account was documented here.

    Oh...BTW if anyone is going to weld moly use 4130 condition 'N' ....4140 IS okay also.
    #29
    Bobmws and Strong Bad like this.
  10. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Oddometer:
    5,756
    Location:
    Middleburg, Pa. (Snyder County)
    I doubt it would show a twist at all. Typically torsion bars will go more 'dead' in usage but not twist and take a set as it seems you indicated. This is even more true for a swaybar because it is moving in two drections with a load differently than a torsion bar in a suspension would do. I could elaborate much more here but it would probably add to more confusion rather than do any good.
    #30
  11. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Oddometer:
    5,756
    Location:
    Middleburg, Pa. (Snyder County)
    AMEN BROTHER !!! LOL
    #31
  12. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    11,973
    Location:
    Minnesota
    True, but I have read it elsewhere since Bill B said it( I have never actually never read Bills article on swaybars, don't tell him) the piece of Moly I have is a weldable alloy as this isn't my first trip to the welding shop or McMaster Carr either ! I rode mine home 45 miles slowly with the sidecar and passenger using the swaybar as suspension, I'm reasonably certain something changed as after repairing the rocker pivot and leveling the sidecar again I had to change the connector length allot to get back to neutral. I have not found anything else bent or broken, but hearing that they shouldn't twist , the rocker stand was tearing and I didn't notice it until it completely failed.
    [​IMG]
    When the rocker is unsupported the sway bar holds the swingarm up ?

    [​IMG]
    Chromo race axles are tubular as are the ends of Claudes swaybars, and they twist and break as could the welds between the solid moly center and the ends welded to it ! I've been meaning to ask have you played with the centre length ? Is longer softer or stiffer ?
    Now gentlemen we have taken Twintwins original thread completely off topic !:hair Are you guys happy now ? My apologies Twintwin.
    #32
  13. twintwin

    twintwin Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Oddometer:
    932
    Location:
    NL
    Ok, so apparently no much options without changing all the mounts brackets to accommodate an new electric actuator.
    I will try Melrone one, same unit, if it is still working, he will test it this week end. And if it is just fine, past experience teaches me that it will fail at some point (I have already killed two).
    So I need a back up, and I was thinking getting the ultimate high-tech deluxe redesign manual tilt from Claude, same as the one Angtlalaska got a couple month ago.

    [​IMG]

    Claude if you have already passed the prototype stage, and have started the mass production, I will order two (unpainted is just fine). One for the R1100GS rig, and one for the R1150GSA rig that has the older manual tilt model, pain in the neck to change the setting as you have to jack the chair and take off one end of the tilt strut.
    #33
  14. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Oddometer:
    5,756
    Location:
    Middleburg, Pa. (Snyder County)
    Shoot Me an email....FACT IS that we started off with this type of adjustor and found that with the swaybar they were very seldom adjusted so we quit making them. Richard asked for one and we went ahead and did one at his request. Point being we have many many outfits out there with our standard manual tilit adjustor and it is seldom used .....Many of these rigs hav eut on some serious miles ...Serious miles! Thhe present one tilt adjustor is Good to have if you need it but if you do not have it then it is a matter of adjusting lean out which is more cumbersome. I would highly suggest you check your setup and possibly add a little lean out and if it doesn't presently have a swaybar add one. But if you wish to go with an electric tilt then do so.
    #34
    Bobmws and davebig like this.
  15. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Oddometer:
    5,756
    Location:
    Middleburg, Pa. (Snyder County)
    DB wrote:
    Chromo race axles are tubular as are the ends of Claudes swaybars, and they twist and break as could the welds between the solid moly center and the ends welded to it !

    Over the years racers being their own worst enemy have run thinner and thinner wall tubing for the front axles. In times past it was almost unheard of for a front axle to break like we see them do today. Progress? No. Faster cars ? Yes. Better racing? No way. More cost? Of course as racers are their own worst enemies. Is this to be compared to sidecars ? Nope not really.

    DB wrote: I've been meaning to ask have you played with the centre length ? Is longer softer or stiffer ?

    Of course we have. Shorter is stiffer. Dynamically when underway the real action does relate to arm lengths though.


    DB wrote:
    Now gentlemen we have taken Twintwins original thread completely off topic !:hair Are you guys happy now ? My apologies Twintwin.

    I apologise also
    #35
  16. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    11,973
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Claude on dirt track race cars we ran tubular axles to a quick change, they twist and eventually break, they look just like the sway bar ends (chromoly tube splined at both ends. Having experimented to hell and gone, with swaybar preload mine gets very stiff very fast and the ride suffers.
    When I got here I knew nothing but I'm a quick study and been hanging out in garages and curious all my life ! Thankyou

    Twintwin I got one of those from Claude a couple years ago and he's exactly right, with a swaybar adjusting that strut is about sidecar ride height and doesn't really change the spring preload.
    [​IMG]
    I even drilled mine to stick a screwdriver thru to aid in adjusting, but one still has to get the sidecar wheel off the ground to move it, plus the the rocker is unequal length with at least a 3 or 4 to one ratio, move the front .25" the back moves .75+, to effectively change ride height one still needs to disconnect the swaybar.
    If you want stiffer suspension out on the sidecar preload the swaybar but don't get carried away.
    I'm sure Claude will correct me if I'm wrong :-)
    #36
  17. FR700

    FR700 Heckler ™©®℗

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    18,165
    Location:
    Your imagination.

    For your sake, I'd like to think you've somehow sealed those holes, so as to prevent water and dirt entry. You know, to stop internal rusting of the threads.


    .
    #37
  18. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    11,973
    Location:
    Minnesota
    :lol3:lol3 I'm one of Claudes customers we are against anti sneeze,grease and all forms of common sense, but if you'll feel better they will be full of silicone tonight !
    #38
  19. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Oddometer:
    5,756
    Location:
    Middleburg, Pa. (Snyder County)
    When we used to do the left and right hand thread ones we did some with holes but we drilled the holes out large and welded in a piece of tubing . Then we went to having the left hand threaded insert made out of stock for a wrench to be used on it. The end that was inserted into the tube was turned down round to flit and the hex left on the other end for a wrench. Yes if you don't do something with those holes you can forget adjusting it soon.
    #39
  20. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Oddometer:
    5,756
    Location:
    Middleburg, Pa. (Snyder County)
    Okay sorry I was thinking of front axles due to my background being more sprint car based. Sprints run a 3" one piece tubular axle in the rear made of aluminum (steel years ago). Ther eis a flange near the middle to hold the ring gear. Issues are not that common.
    As you noted earlier...if you wish to play with the tilt adjustor you can disconnect one of the links ..or both of them...do the adjusting and then hook things back up. Sometimes adjusting the link and somethines moving the bar a spline. Most don't mess with the swaybar though as messing with the tit adjustor preloads the swaybar itself and as you mentioned stiffens things up.
    #40