tilt, linear actuator replacement

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by twintwin, May 9, 2016.

  1. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    That's an old image, you don't remember one of our previous conversations, your help does do anti seize all my threaded bits have been taken apart and anti seized and lubed as I ride in all sorts of weather the fact that it was originally put together without any was disappointing.
    As you know once the ride height is set and swaybar adjusted no one would need to change that arm.

    As to the sway bar adjustment we agree but you keep inferring I'm confused.
    I took a bunch of float out of my front brake disks, put a new 135 Nankang on the front and it finally quit raining so I rode today coldest 60 degrees I ever felt.Brrrr
    My rig has never worked any better and I can't think of a thing I'd change ! :-) Or perhaps I've just become a better operator !
    #41
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  2. FR700

    FR700 Heckler ™©®℗

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    Some rubber plugs... you'll likely still want to adjust it at some future point in the space time continuum... like, perhaps, during a long ride, for whatever reason.

    If you're gonna brag 'bout the nevR-sneeze, the leprechauns will take it that you also run a chase tap through all those threads, prior to the slippery stuff.


    .
    #42
  3. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

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    We do chase the threads and such. Prefer to use never sneeze but we miss some to be honest. The stuff does work but is mess if one picks his nose after using it.
    #43
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  4. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    It only changes ride height it does nothing for spring pre-load, I've played with it a bunch ! It'll be OK , they got anti sneezed as they where all attempting to stick, I was born in the morning but not any mornings recently :-)
    #44
  5. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    Truer words have never been written :clap
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  6. FR700

    FR700 Heckler ™©®℗

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    Ya don't say? :lol3

    TMI

    :thumb


    .
    #46
  7. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

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    It will change effective spring preload in a sense if you factor in winding up the swaybar if it is not messed with. No big deal really.
    #47
  8. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    So back to Twintwin it's his thread ! It's been my experience that with a swaybar adjusting that link without changing the swaybar is a waste of time, I'm only using the one I have now as I have it adjusted about .5" shorter than the other one I have can go and I am running a longer shock and needed a little more room.

    Considering one can add spring preload at the shock and at the rocker, preload the swaybar it can all get too stiff very easily an screw the ride. Too many choices !

    What I have found is no matter how long your shock travel, you have you only use 3-4" the swaybar will no let it travel farther even if you have a long shock.

    Mine came with a 120/170 pound spring it now has a 140 pound spring and longer shock, I have taken to leaving the swaybar neutral I have passengers from 125 pounds too 235 pounds and the usual stuff it works well everywhere. I use only a touch of lean out unloaded when I get on it's straight up and down.

    But by now don't we all know all sidecar stuff is subjective :1drink
    #48
  9. angtlalaska

    angtlalaska Been here awhile

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    I asked Claude if he would dust off his "old" strut design so I could adjust the height (level) of the sidecar when it was loaded and unloaded. Because my rig was originally designed to be hung on a GSA and I had a factory lower GS there was considerable difference in the height. Because of some other issue it was difficult to adjust the height and level of the sidecar. The existing strut had only one or two threads left to adjust so I opted to go back in time so to speak. After Claude sent the dual thread strut I installed the strut. I removed all the "crap" from the sidecar, leveled the sidecar and adjusted the lean and toe, reconnected my sway bar per Claude and DB's recommendation. Took the rig for a ride hands free no pulling to the right or left. Then I loaded the sidecar with about 400 lbs of cement bags, Some in the trunk, some on the seat and one on the floor in front of the seat. The rig was leaning to the right. I could have cranked down the shock pre-load and leveled the sidecar. Yes the sway bar was under load. I opted to disconnect the sway bar and adjust the strut so the sidecar was level. re-connected the sway bar so no preload. I forgot to measure lean on the tug but I again ran down the road at 60 and could take my hands off the bar with no turn right or left. I guess I could add or subtract some height if I was smart enough to know the road conditions and wind beforehand but that's beyond my skill set. I was just happy to be able to set up the rig for loaded travel and unloaded running around town. Its working for me. I use the nut ends Claude welded in or on the center section of the strut. My only suggestion would be to increase the size (height) of the nut side so you can get more of the wrench on the nut.

    [​IMG]

    Would I prefer an electric tilt. I don't know. I have never ridden another sidecar rig so I don't know. My good friend AlaskaHack has one but he also has the BMW ESA so he can tune the rig 7 ways to Sunday on the fly. Being a gadget guy the idea sounds great but I also have a sway bar, although I am at a loss to explain why it works as it does. But just for an experiment I disconnected the sway bar from the sidecar swing arm and ran my "test" circuit. There is a difference in how the rig handles. Is it better, I think so but I need someone like Strong, xrocket, DB or any number of long time riders to who are more experienced than me to objectively tell me why I think its better.

    TwinTwin Claude's "old" strut worked for me in my particular circumstance but its not something you can change on the fly unless you have a pretty talented monkey.
    #49
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  10. Bobmws

    Bobmws Curmudgeon At Large

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    It sounds like you need to learn how to adjust the sway bar to a neutral setting after you adjust the ride height. As DB & Claude have mentioned, changing the tilt adjuster (manual or electric) will preload the sway bar, having an (adverse?) effect on handling. That would explain why you felt better handling with the bar disconnected.
    #50
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  11. twintwin

    twintwin Been here awhile Supporter

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    Thanks all for your responses and explanations. After years playing with the trail value, size, pressures of the tires, lean out, set back toe in, chock preload, swaybar adjustment.......what I'm missing :-). Loaded or unloaded, compromise, compromise, I love the 2 ways height setting of the tilt explained by Richard. Well I still feel the need for a quick adjustable tilt for straight highway long time period cruising. Why do we have an adjustable tilt (manual or electric) for our GS rig? if we can not play with it! I understand that you can adjust your ground clearance with this tilt, actuator, but the GS rig is quite sensitive to the load you carry in the chair at highway speed, especially when the camber of the road changes. Ural do not have tilt neither swaybar, but they cannot cruise at 70 miles/hour. It is why I still love the concept of Claude's quick adjustable deluxe double threaded tilt, and again what I'm missing?
    #51
  12. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad Former World's Foremost Authority Supporter

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    I've only really wished I had a tilt adjustment once. Headed home on the Heart of the West ride last year from Provo UT to Ely NV there was a real strong cross wind around 50mph! My right arm was pushing as hard as I could and my left was pulling as hard as I could for four hours!!! Yeah, an electric adjuster would have been nice.....
    #52
  13. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    What your missing Twintwin is it's not an easy change if you have a swaybar and if the 1100 doesn't have a swaybar put one on it and give it a whirl but I would rather have my sway bar untampered with, but I've had the huge crosswind day also, sidecars a pain on such days !
    #53
  14. brianjonesphoto

    brianjonesphoto Hacked off

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    Here's photos of the simplest solution for you. The is way Jay did for the PO of my rig when the actuator went T/U. It looks like them removed the motor unit and welded a handle onto the shaft. no fuss no muss. Still self locking, no tools needed to adjust.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #54
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  15. angtlalaska

    angtlalaska Been here awhile

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    My response may have been misleading. I was saying the rig handled better WITH the sway bar connected and I can't explain why. Also DB and Claude have stressed to me that when making adjustments disconnect the sway bar make all of my adjustments then reconnect the sway bar as neutral as possible. Which is what I an doing. Like Strong I have had a few legs on my trips where a strong crosswind has caused me to put a lot of weather helm in the handle bars to keep going straight. I am hoping for these situations that the left and right threaded strut will allow me to quickly dial in some lean to offset the wind. I don't know if I will need to disconnect the sway bar and re-set it neutral after or not. If I do, then it sort of defeats the purpose of a quick adjustment while on the road to offset hours of crosswind.

    I was hoping that the double threaded strut will be something like the modified actuator on Brianjonesphoto's rig.
    #55
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  16. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    It probably will not !

    Your of course free to try that but I doubt you'll have a positive outcome, I haven't , is what we've been trying to say ! Lots of crosswind weather helm that is sidecaring ! Get a more aero sidecar rig with centerhub steering (your more disconnected from the steering) they are easier to deal with.

    It might if the swaybar where disconnected, but I doubt you'll get much done but frustrate yourself ! I didn't , the rocker has a 3 or 4 to one ratio with the sidecar wheel on the ground it takes a pretty decent sized lever to compress it.
    Rigs with power camber compensators use a different rocker with a 1 to 1 ratio .
    With a swaybar in the suspension to compensate for huge side forces , it may require you to change the tugs lean out (bigger job) and not really a practical solution.
    Otherwise its stop disconnect swaybar, add spring tension (may have to get wheel off ground) reattach swaybar after adjusting it. Way to much work ! I would look for a different route.This is what I've found.

    Claude tell me if I'm wrong ! Really
    #56
  17. twintwin

    twintwin Been here awhile Supporter

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    Actually I have one of the very early swaybar build by Claude (the first one on a GS was Ara's rig a couple month earlier). April 2006! 10 years ago, even before CMS was created. A couple pictures of this historic event :-)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #57
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  18. twintwin

    twintwin Been here awhile Supporter

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    Thanks for the tip, very cleaver, I will try it with the dead tilt
    #58
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  19. Bobmws

    Bobmws Curmudgeon At Large

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    OK, It handled better because the anti-swaybar is working as it should. And yes, I believe you will have to adjust the anti-swaybar to neutral after adjusting the strut. One kind of defeats the other, which is why I have stopped lusting for an anti-swaybar on my rig.
    I guess you will have to play with the settings, there may be an amount of adjustment on the strut that will have minimal effect on the bar, and still give you the handling change you want for a particular situation.
    If (when?) my actuator goes TU, I'll weigh the replacement vs. an anti-swaybar.
    #59
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  20. airheadDan

    airheadDan Been here awhile

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    Bob, My rig is very similar to yours, K1200rs with a Hannigan classic sidecar. Claude built mine with a swaybar. Using the actuator has very little effect without disconnecting the swaybar to take out any preload. I would just as soon have a manual adjustment as on DB's rig but on the Hannigan Classic you can't even see the actuator without removing the body. I have disconnected the swaybar just to see how the rig would handle. Without the swaybar the ride was much softer, but there was a lot more sway while cornering. I prefer the flat cornering of my rig with the swaybar. I only use the actuator to compensate for changes in load, disconnecting the swaybar first.
    #60
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