To all the haters of hanging off the bike.

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by VxZeroKnots, Dec 30, 2011.

  1. outlaws justice

    outlaws justice On the Fringe

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    I learned a good technique by taking the Total Control Advanced riding clinic then I went to the tracks.

    www.totalcontroltraining.net

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  2. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    Exactly.
    Do what you know is safe, and don't sweat over what others are doing
  3. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    I agree 100%, I do what ever is nessary to ensure the safety of myself and the person passing me. The only thing I wont do is try to decide for them when it is safe.
  4. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    Actually I don't think you are wrong in regard to someone who is going slow, what I object to is thatt you seem to feel that it also applies to everyone who happens to be slower than you at any particular moment and that it is never reasonable for someone going fast to just slow down some to let others do their thing.
  5. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer Supporter

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    It looks like these riders are looking down at the track and not where they are going. I have noticed it on other pics too. Anyone have an explanation for that?
  6. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer Supporter

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    I don't object to people who choose to ride slower than me. I am certainly not the fastest rider out there. What I fail to understand is why people have such a hard time practicing common courtesy. I don't expect that when I come up behind someone that they immediately pull off the road. That's not what I do. When someone comes up behind me on a twisty road, I continue on until I am somewhere that I feel is safe for them to pass, then move to the right of my lane, ease off and wave them by. This requires virtually no effort on my part yet allows them to continue on at the speed they want, while I continue at my speed as soon as they're by me.

    I have seen a lot of people post their opinions, but not one post on why this is so difficult or a good reason it shouldn't be done.

    I also understand that for many riders twisty mountain roads are pretty terrifying and all their attention is consumed looking ahead. I really don't expect them to help me pass them or even notice I am behind them. I'm only talking about riders who are reasonably proficient at riding curvy roads and have some awareness of what's going on around them.
  7. bimmerx2

    bimmerx2 Long timer

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    Don't be fooled by where the helmet seems to be pointing, they are looking "UP" at least at their target exit points for the corner. The guys at the top level are only going to get out of the tucked position when it makes sense (like under hard braking) and spend a lot of time 'peeking' forward with their heads down to reduce wind resistance. I have some pic's around here that show it pretty well if you're interested.
  8. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer Supporter

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    That makes sense.

    I'm also wondering if the aerodynamic hump found on many racing leathers forces their helmet down?
  9. PFFOG

    PFFOG Richard Alps-aholic Supporter

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    Fixed it for ya!
  10. bimmerx2

    bimmerx2 Long timer

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    Mine keeps me from tilting my head back very far.
  11. Ohio_Danimal

    Ohio_Danimal If I die trying, at least I tried Supporter

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    I never raced motorcycles in any fashion, but did spend many years racing bicycles. I have been riding motorcycles both dirt and street though for over 30 years and have had knees down many years ago but that shit's behind me now.

    To me it's about the bike and making it happy.

    For any given speed, the bike you're on has a specific preference for getting through a turn with minimal stress to it's chassis. This preference differs bike to bike of course, depending on the bike's chassis parameters (weight, ground clearance, geometry, suspension and braking potentials to name a few)
    If you increase the speed, change the radius of the turn, add surface irregularities, it all will change te stresses to the chassis and the chassis will respond according to those same parameters.
    It is my job as the pilot to figure out how to lower the stresses and get the bike to flow through the turn easily.

    If you are sitting bolt upright, locked into the plane of your bike and are cornering with ANY real speed, you are adding stresses to the chassis, the tire's carcass....everything.
    Shift your weight (a little or a LOT) and it will not just increase cornering clearances, it will make your bike happy.

    It will let you know when what you are doing helps it flow.

    It doesn't take much most of the time.
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  12. TrashCan

    TrashCan Scary Jerry

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    Slight lean..



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  13. VxZeroKnots

    VxZeroKnots Long timer

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    please share :deal
  14. rallybug

    rallybug Local Yokel

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    Of course, back in the day of Mike the Bike, "hanging off" wasn't known, and they still went pretty fast

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    :D

    Although Hutchy and McPint at the same Signpost Corner as above in modern racing are a little further over:

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    :lol3
  15. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    You sum it up rather well right there, I would not allow you to make that decision for me, and I will not presume to make that decision for you.

    We are basically on the same page as to what we actually do in the real world, it's just how we do it. I do occasionally wave someone by when not operating a commercial vehicle, but prefer to reserve it as a last resort when it becomes the only safe option.
  16. VxZeroKnots

    VxZeroKnots Long timer

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    Amazing historical comparison, that is cool!
  17. dwoodward

    dwoodward Long timer

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    Rossi does it too. My take is since they're working a closed course loop, no obstacles or oncoming traffic, they can focus more on hitting their marks.

    Also remember those leathers have a big hump behind the helmet, that may be as high as they can get their head.

    I do see other racers with huge head turns. :dunno
  18. bimmerx2

    bimmerx2 Long timer

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    I just grabbed a couple of pic's showing eyes that I could find quick.

    A great shot of Lorenzo spotting his line.

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    The wife takes 100's of pic's at trackdays and at the WSBK event in SLC and hunting for something like this is pretty tedious but here are a couple of regular guys in "less extreme" positions keeping our EYES UP. I tried to grab a couple where the eyes are at least a little visible. Most of us wear dark shields in this Texas sun...

    Me...
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    Not everyone at a trackday is on a late model RR...
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    Another great example here (big pic so I didn't want to embed it): http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/222677/images/228989.jpg
  19. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    If you aren't looking at least a mark ahead you are going to miss it for sure, the hardest thing (for me anyway) about going from street to the track is keeping your eyes out far enough. You are rarely looking anywhere near the front of the bike, and that gets even harder when there is another rider there.

    I'd doubt it, I have two suits like that and I can get the back sill of my helmet to touch my them, but I've never noticed the hump interfering with head motion at all, if it did that suite would be being returned.

    Its a style thing. Watching MotoGP you can actually see who came from super bike and who came up from the 250s. The 250 riders generally stay small small small, and when there is a question about it, they stay small.

    Compare that to Mladin or Spies (although Spies has adopted a more traditonal GP form now) or Colin Edwards and you will see a more "head up" site line in a lot of cases.

    At least that is what I think, look at Bayliss or Doohan and the real form natzis contend that they never should have finished a corner. If you get to the next corner you didn't fuck it up that badly.
  20. outlaws justice

    outlaws justice On the Fringe

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    I do not have a problem with head turn, but I can only raise my chin so high before the helmet hits my leathers. This is not a problem since I can also look up with the eyes. The only turn where I cannot see my exit is the bowl at Loudon New Hampshire. I do see the exit, but not till I am into the turn. This makes it really important to hit my entry and apex so I have confidence I will hit my exit even before I can see it.

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