Total Control Training is Pennsylvania's new official state program manager

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by OfirMX, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. jwumpus

    jwumpus standup philosopher

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    I searched for "total control" hoping to find some information on Mr. Parks' book and hopefully even a dvd. I figured this must be the place since it was the most recent thread, I seemed to have wandered into an argument about physics, though. So should I buy this book or not? I don't see a link to a dvd anywhere, does one exist?
  2. aa3jy

    aa3jy Been here awhile

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    You can purchase an online read through Kindle...
  3. jwumpus

    jwumpus standup philosopher

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    Thanks. I prefer physical books so I'm going to go with that. I'm just wondering if it's worth reading. I get the impression that some of the information is a bit contentious.
  4. jonz

    jonz Miles are my mantra Supporter

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  5. aa3jy

    aa3jy Been here awhile

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    Oh??? what about the Pa.’s Total Control program for the past two years? And where are the stats for Ca. M/C miles driven..not registered motorcycles per accident..anyone can buy a motorcycle have it registered but not drive it which would equate to ‘0’ accidents...

    The following is from this months ‘Motorcycle Consumer News’ authored by Lee Parks..


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    Viewable Image - california motorcyclist fatalities are down

    Image Caption

    TOTAL CONTROL TRAINING
    However, good news can be seen in the accompanying charts. California is beating the previous fatality trend in every metric checked against, including comparison to nonmotorcycle fatalities, registrations, endorsements and new and used motorcycle sales.

    I can’t wait to see how this affects the rest of the country, as these safety coalition-building and training methodologies expand into more state programs.

    MCN will continue to report on trends and developments in this area
  6. outlaws justice

    outlaws justice On the Fringe

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    When the number of people trained and put on the roads goes from 20,000 per year to 8,500 per year that is a lot less "New" riders out riding and having accidents, so that will make the numbers look a lot different... Just saying
  7. ryder1

    ryder1 Long timer

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    When will the 2020 classes open up?
  8. Andyvh1959

    Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen Supporter

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    Da frozen tundra eh? 1.5 mile west of Lambeau
    Curious, to the other MSF and Total Control instructors out there; has everyone seen a significant decrease in student numbers, classes needed, and riders completing training course over the last eight years? Perhaps ten years or more. I recall back in the middle of this decade we still had a glut of students, requiring many more class offerings to meet the demand. But especially up here in Wisconsin, a trend started that we had classes barely filling in mid-August, and classes cancelled by early September.

    Some sites in WI remain steady and busy into October, but most sites run far fewer classes than 15 years ago.
  9. outlaws justice

    outlaws justice On the Fringe

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    Lets look at the real numbers not put together by the staff at TCTI

    https://motorcyclefatalities.org/data/occupant/mf5/Motorcyclist.Fatalities.5yrRolling.CALIFORNIA.pdf
  10. Eddie Apex

    Eddie Apex n00b

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    Here's a more complete picture of the California situation. No moving average. All years available from NHTSA's FARS database.

    CAfatals.jpg
  11. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    I think you meant to say "causation". Correlation is what all the yak is about and it is of course meaningless. Earlier in the thread some insurance institute noted a statistic, said it was statistically insignificant, then hung their hat on it.

    on page 3 of 16. lotta bullshit so far. Think I'll step out for some air.
  12. Norty01

    Norty01 RIDERCOACH (RETIRED!)

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    Parks just signed with the State of Cal for 2 more years (with option for add'l 3 years.)
    Lee sure loves the State's $$,$$$,$$$.
  13. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    It is important to consider as many variables as possible, not just the ones whomever is providing the statistic is pushing.

    What is the most dangerous motorcycle you can ride? I'll argue it's the one you just bought, built or modified. The new-to-you bike is a hazard (excluding a new KLR to replace your worn out one). I rode the same bike for 20 years. I could thread a needle with it at a walking pace despite it being big, heavy and kinda wide for that needle. Got a new bike. Dropped it twice in 2 days.

    More motorcycles sold is more new-to-me bikes under more butts. I can see fatalities going up, not down.. More motorcycles sold is also more dealer bikes sold. A new rider that walks into a dealer and buys a new bike, or one pretty enough to be a trade in, is an idiot. idiots buying bikes is good for increasing fatalities. All the bikes sold on craigslist or cycle trader don't hit the More motorcycles sold radar although I would wager the smarter new riders are in that camp.

    To make the statement that a percentage increase in X is due to an increase in the population size of Y takes some fine and fancy statistics. We don't even have causation proven yet! That is using junk science to prove some predetermined point or another.
  14. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    Last time I was on a military base (Ft. Carson) I was required to ride wearing a day glo vest. Those pesky variables again.
  15. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    um...data means nothing. The real job is generating a hypothesis (ie, eating apples increases flat tires), then gathering clean data (much data is garbage), then analyzing the data to test the hypothesis (stats) then announcing the results (including the possibilities of type 1 or 2 errors, the significance of results, the confidence interval, etc.). If you are going to publish your work in a peer reviewed journal you damn well better not use the stats to lie. You will get busted quick. But all sorts of factoids are foisted off on a pretty untechnical public as "studies" to further various agendas. (as some have noted here).
  16. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    Having shot my mouth off so much I should mention I have never taken a rider training course. The only driver training I have had was a class I had to take the time I got busted for going...um...kinda fast in CA. (on a bike). I taught myself to ride. It was midsummer '83 or so and I wanted to do a tour from Colorado to California at Christmas time (quit laughing). Not much time to get a bike and learn to ride it. I looked in the paper. Endless columns of meaningless letters and designations. I heard I would need at least a 500 to tour with a camping load. Found a 500 a couple town away. It was cheap. A riding friend went to look at it with me. It had been painted a sickly tan with a brush but at ran and had a cute little windshield. And was cheap. Gave the PO cash and friend rode it home.

    It was a twin but my friends rode twins, there was a strange little tank to put oil in. I put on some work boots and work gloves and rode down the dirt alley to a vacant lot. The lot was rough with high grass and ample brush piles where cut saplings had been piled up. It was hard to ride. Completely gutless up to 3k then it had 47 HP right NOW. Changed the sprockets. Rode around and around on the lot frequently bashing through the brush piles. When I got good enough to ride around the brush piles rather than through them I figured I was ready for the street. Rode down to the DMV and took the driving test.Had to weave the cones, turn inside the circle then go back shifting up and down through all the gears. Went a bit wide on the circle but the tester cut it to me explaining it was a pretty big bike to take the test on.

    Got a used Belstaff to go with the work boots and gloves and a born-to-die helmet and set off on a shake down tour across the state. Dropped it upside down on some very steep slick rock dead tired day one, had other adventures and arrived home convinced I should put the tour off, like forever. Blasted around town on it racking up speeding tickets then sold it and got an old beemer. Saw the guy I sold it to blasting around town, a lot. He didn't look to be long for this world.

    I keep thinking I should take a riding course or something but I've had too much of school. The slightest bit more appeals like having poison oak (again). I did get a book to read, recently, by David something or other. I got to the part where he describes how to ride so you will get killed in Colorado, quick. Pfft. Put it away. I do notice those training courses are held on nice clean parking lots. The street is not a nice clean parking lot. Suggest learning on a rough dirt lot. I have been told some real dirt experience would be valuable but I have never gotten any. No dirt bike and now I am too old.

    Someone told me about counter steering once. I said, "huh, so that's what it's called". I can ride (and crash) a bicycle....

    I thought the demonstration with the conical cottage cheeze containers was interesting. But the fine inmate who went through that trouble missed something. When he rolled one cone it did indeed turn. And this is what the bike does. But in his demo when he went to two cones he set the axles parallel to each other. On the bike there is the steering head, a line drawn through the axles in a turn converges at a point to the inside of the turn. Lean the bike over in the driveway and the front wheel will flop to the inside. Suggest trying that again but make one side slat shorter than the other. Try putting the short one on the small end of the cone then on the long end.
  17. outlaws justice

    outlaws justice On the Fringe

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    How about a real link to what that is showing in more detail, just posting a graph means nothing since we do not know who created it and where the information came from...
  18. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Souped-Up Weasel

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    You should. Not a beginner's class, obviously (although you may learn something). Take an advanced class, or do a track day, or California Superbike School. All sorts of fun learning opportunities out there.
  19. Eddie Apex

    Eddie Apex n00b

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    Data came from databases at the previous link (via the FTP Site). It can be confirmed, more or less, on NHTSA's annual Motorcycle Fact Sheets. For example: 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017. These are small PDFs. For Fact Sheets back to 1993, refer to NHTSA's motorcycle publication list.

    I said "more or less" because the Fact Sheets are compiled from the initial FARS database, which recently has come out in October of the following year. California's total always increases when the final database comes out the next year (October 2019 for the 2017 final). To see final numbers, go to NHTSA's online Traffic Safety Facts Annual Report Tables. Click on States, then States: Occupants, then on Table 113: Occupants Killed, by State and Vehicle Type. Select Year and Update Table to see values. As of today, 2017 is still showing the initial 2017 California motorcycle fatalities (529 as seen in the Fact Sheet) not final (578), and 2018 does not yet appear.