Total Control Training is Pennsylvania's new official state program manager

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by OfirMX, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. PA Motorcyclist

    PA Motorcyclist n00b

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    PA's inability to run their own mandated program is unfortunately nothing new.
    Typically they have a 3rd party company run the Program but as PennDOT has decided to change things things have gotten worse.

    Yes, PA is still collecting fees from licenses and permits.
    Yes, PennDOT is still spending those fees under the PAMSP banner.
    Yes, PennDOT is holding "training" in 2020 - one to address the collection of funds without a mandated program and the other to have training for those under 18 - both mandates PennDOT violated for canceling the PAMSP contract in April.
    No, PennDOT did not need to cancel the contract for "COVID".
    No, PennDOT did not need to cancel PAMSP in 2020 due to "funding" (the program is self funded)
    No, PAMSP is not "restarting" PAMSP for 2020 - it's a workaround for a very short period of time to get PennDOT out of hot water.
    No, Pennsylvanians are not motivated to correct the issues around PAMSP.
    Yes, PennDOT is now pursuing a "3rd party model" where any vendor, from any place, teaching anything can bid on and teach as a "PAMSP" site.
    This is for both 2020 and 2021-2025 and beyond.
    Yes, if you own a property -like an MC dealership - you can run your "own" program (removing it from other bidders).
    No, 2020 site awards have no bearing on 2021.
    No, PA will no longer have uniform training across the state, or across the street potentially.
    No, contracts are no longer for 5 years - they are for 2 with up to 3 1 year renewals.

    There were some companies running their own non-licensing beginner rider clinics but with the sudden appearance of the "emergency" 2020 PennDOT contract, those plans were disrupted as sites scramble to hop onto the RFP to be able to award license waivers and to get paid back by PennDOT via a PAMSP contract (until 12/31/2020). You still may find some companies offering non-PAMSP training, but that will change in 2021.

    If you're an Instructor in PA don't worry - built into the contracts are vendor funds to pay to train you (via PAMSP funds).
    Many of us have had our certifications orphaned before, likely will again.

    If you're a student looking to take PAMSP license waiver classes in 2020 they'll be offered at less than 1/3 of the total available PAMSP sites.
    There will not be very many classes, they will be with different vendors, they will be a challenge to get into and to schedule.

    If you're interested in what is going on in PA with the entitlement known as the PA Motorcycle Safety Program (PAMSP) see:
    www.pamotorcyclist.com
    AZbiker and Luckycharms like this.
  2. ryder1

    ryder1 Long timer

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    Thanks for the info @PA Motorcyclist

    "If you're a student looking to take PAMSP license waiver classes in 2020 they'll be offered at less than 1/3 of the total available PAMSP sites.
    There will not be very many classes, they will be with different vendors, they will be a challenge to get into and to schedule."

    This sems to be the norm rather than the exception.
    Tall Man likes this.
  3. PA Motorcyclist

    PA Motorcyclist n00b

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    It didn't use to be the norm.

    The post "how we got here" includes a lot of detail, as does the site in general.

    We used to have lines out the door at most sites, full classes, full schedules.
    We also used to have over 500 Instructors for the same number of sites.

    The end of 2013 started a disastrous slide with a new 5-year contract, by 2017 there were far less than half of the Instructors remaining, classes were now scheduled around Instructor availability and by the time the end of 2017 rolled around things were at an all-time low. 2018 started with no certified Instructors. It would take over 2 years to get back up to 300 Instructors but with a plan to fully cover all but 3 counties in PA, teach 17,000 students. Then PennDOT canceled the contract and has pitched the whole program back into chaos for 2020 and 2021-2025.

    With the 3rd party model being driven by profit it's a race to the bottom, and for the most 'prosperous' sites. In the end there will be less sites, more difficulties in scheduling and filling classes, a lack of portability between sites (as sites in the same geography can be teaching one of 4 or more curriculum), additional Instructor shortages due to lack of certification, and quality issues as Instructors are rapidly trained to staff new vendors coming into PA.

    Unfortunately moving forward it very well may be the norm, but one that was totally avoidable.
    Luckycharms likes this.
  4. Paebr332

    Paebr332 Good news everyone!

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    I cannot find any information on what if any sites have received contracts from the state for training under the RFP sent out this summer.
  5. PA Motorcyclist

    PA Motorcyclist n00b

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    If you are referring to the "Emergency" RFP approximately 1/3 of the total PAMSP sites in operation at the start of 2020 were awarded, among those not all will open (even though they were awarded) and the awards went to (2) Companies [one with one site, one with 21] and two HD dealers who retained and bid on their own sites. The "emergency" contract ends 12/31/2020 and training will likely end well before that due to weather.

    This is largely a move to get PennDOT out of a pickle as they violated 2 statutes by cancelling the 2017 contract outright.
    The Program is not fully back up and running and unfortunately, the same "3rd party' model will be used in 2021.

    Currently, vendors are responsible for scheduling (which is now decentralized, largely word of mouth) as well as customer service, etc.

    PennDOT will [likely] issue a statement at some point, work on consolidating information on their web site but in the meantime, you can go to this site:
    https://learntoridepa.com/ in order to sign up for classes available via Total Control.

    When the Program was suspended due to COVID protocols were in place to address CDC requirements, then the contract was suspended, then a few weeks canceled. It is important for the riding public to understand that certified Instructors and fully provisioned sites covering all of PA were ready to resume operations as soon as possible before PennDOT canceled the contract and fired all of the staff & Instructors, broke covenants & agreements with training sites, let bikes sit unattended, etc.

    Had the contract not been canceled Instructors would have been back on the range asap.

    The 2020 "restart" is a pale imitation but as TCTI as the incumbent vendor they are working as fast as possible to provision all of the sites they were awarded - PennDOT is not supplying equipment other than existing sheds, free of contents, and loner motorcycles. All other provisioning (equipment to run the program) is the responsibility of the 3rd party provider - which creates additional delays as sites once set up to operate now need to be fully provisioned.
    AZbiker and Luckycharms like this.
  6. ryder1

    ryder1 Long timer

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    Too bad it is only for brc and future classes.
  7. AZbiker

    AZbiker Say hi to the bad guy

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    William Gipe is an ass. Wow.

    I bet there is zero accountability at PennDOT for any of this.

    I hope y'all get this worked out.
  8. PA Motorcyclist

    PA Motorcyclist n00b

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    Thanks, it's not been easy being a PA RiderCoach/Instructor that is for sure.

    There is zero accountability as absolutely no one is holding them accountable.
    Shameful but the Legislature, Rights Groups, Riders, Instructors have been silent.
    AZbiker likes this.
  9. Norty01

    Norty01 Occupant

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    Have there been any classes held this year?

    Covid kinda shut Calif down. (There may be a trickle, but there's no flood, like there usually is.)
  10. PA Motorcyclist

    PA Motorcyclist n00b

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    We started the PA season, ran some classes, then implemented COVID protocols, then had operations suspended, then had the contract suspended then PennDOT just cancelled the contract (no mediation, no modifications, etc.) firing everyone all at once across the Commonwealth. So not a lot of classes early on and given the fact that PennDOT had announced "no classes for 2020" early on trying to restart is a nightmare... we will run some this year but while we have a massive backlog we'll only have a few classes at a few sites...
    AZbiker likes this.
  11. AZbiker

    AZbiker Say hi to the bad guy

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    You're welcome.

    Such cowardice and corruption hurts both you and the people you serve.

    Too bad no one has pursued a remedy through the courts, this seems like a situation ripe for some temporary injunctive relief.
  12. ryder1

    ryder1 Long timer

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  13. aa3jy

    aa3jy Been here awhile

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    Had a suspicion that this would happen..continue on a Emergency Basis..to show those in Pa. where the motorcycle funding is being used..and blame COVID as the reason for disbanding the training program..
    But it is interesting watching the various programs Total Control and MSF offering courses at select sights..
  14. PA Motorcyclist

    PA Motorcyclist n00b

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    It has been pretty amazing - having contacted the legislature, auditor general's office, etc.
    Interestingly no one actually knows how the money is spent, or that it goes into a specific account unique in PA for PAMSP training use only.
    With less than 1/3 of the sites operating for a month or two on single schedules while money is still collected from each and every MC permit and license/license renewal costs will be at an all-time low. In the history of the Motorcycle Education Account history, it's never once had a public audit...

    PennDOT selects who is offering programs at the sites.
    Vendors other than Total Control bid only on single sites in 2020.
    In 2021 PennDOT will again award sites, even if multiple vendors bid on the same site.
    Sites such as HD dealers can remove their sites from general bidding, but bid on them on their own.

    The 3rd party providers now have to pay for the certification costs of the Instructors (new), not the Program so it is possible that an independent could leverage the cost of training from a larger provider to fuel their program training costs, to a certain extent...

    It's a disaster.
    AZbiker and Luckycharms like this.
  15. ryder1

    ryder1 Long timer

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    Has anyone found a list of classes and locations? The map is/has been very bad. I usually find the future class sites.
  16. aa3jy

    aa3jy Been here awhile

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    go to the Total Control and MSF web sites..there’s one in Valley Forge (TC)and Philly (MSF)running right now..
  17. Luckycharms

    Luckycharms Been here awhile

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  18. ryder1

    ryder1 Long timer

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    Thanks @Luckycharms it looks like I will be headed to Battlefield HD. Maybe I will have to pick up a new bike too.
  19. ryder1

    ryder1 Long timer

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    The class in Gettyburg was full but I still showed up and luckily there was a no show so I got in. The class was informative. Some of the exercises I did well. Then others the penny dropped at the end. It would be a really great class if it was a 2 day class but then again I am a glutton for punishment.:D

    2 weeks from now is the ARC which I plan on attending. Thanks for the folks who became instructors!!!!!! This may push me over the edge and become one as well.

    Edit for spelling corrections. I should proofread before posting.
  20. Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle Bregan D'Aerthe

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    This looks to be as fucked up as a soup sandwich.