Total Control Training is Pennsylvania's new official state program manager

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by OfirMX, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. outlaws justice

    outlaws justice On the Fringe

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    All Instructors were required to be contractors under the initial rollout of the program please see this notice From TCTI, Notice Item #1 under Special Notes. Now I realize this turned into a problem for TCTI and as a result, many coaches did not convert to the new program so in June (Six months into the contract) TCTI made a change and walked back this policy as outlined in the second e-mail below. As you can see I do my research and have the supporting documents (As well as others) And I have also talked to my insurance provider about coverage as a contractor since I have been in this position before as well. So I am just offering some advice to those in this type of situation.


    Thank you for your interest in becoming part of the TC-PAMSP Team!

    To begin the process, Total Control Training, Inc. and PennDOT require the following documents and clearances be submitted to PAMSP mailbox – msp-info@pa.gov:
    · Instructor focused resume
    · Complete on-line Total Control Instructor Application
    o https://form.jotform.com/80066225763153
    · CPR/1st Aid
    o Current certifications that were renewed on or before 12/23/2017 will be recognized for 2018 calendar year
    o 12/24/2017 and forward must meet the following qualifications
    § American heart Association, and or American Red Cross
    · Required hands-on training certification
    · Online only training not acceptable
    · Pennsylvania State Police (PSP and Child Abuse Clearance)
    o PSP Background Check
    § https://epatch.state.pa.us/Home.jsp
    o Child Abuse
    § https://www.compass.state.pa.us/cwis/public/home
    § If using an existing clearance is older than 30 days, please complete disclosure statement attached to e-mail
    § Select purpose: “Individual seeking to provide child-care services under contract with a child-care facility or program: Applying for the purpose of being able to provide child-care services as part of a contract or grant funded program.”
    · Confidentiality Agreement
    o (Appendix V) attached in email
    · Customer Service Policy
    o (Appendix G) attached in email
    · 10-year driving history report
    o https://apps.pa.egov.com/idr
    · Complete and return W-9
    o W-9s will be collected when you complete your range training (Attached in email)
    Special Notes:
    1. The cost associated for clearances is the responsibility of the contractor, freelancer, and or Tradesman.

    2. When returning a file, save it as the file’s name and just add your initials. For example, Appendix V-SS (SS = Sean Smith)


    The Following is the Email that walked back the original policy but at this time, six months into the program all coaches were contractors. It was only after this that some became the part-time employees mentioned below:

    June 8, 2018

    Dear PAMSP Instructors,

    We want to apologize for the dissatisfaction caused for some of you by the new pay system that we rolled out. Please give us a second chance to provide you with a system that works for you. We consider you part of the PAMSP Team and don’t want to lose you.

    While the Professional Tradesman/Task Order system has worked for some, we know and understand that it doesn’t work for others. We apologize to those of you for whom the Professional Tradesman system didn’t work. We are in the process of implementing an additional pay system in which you are part-time, seasonal employees. Stand by for more details on that plan, coming soon. However, if you are happy with the Professional Tradesman system, you may stay with it.

    I know that you love the PAMSP as much as I do. We apologize that things have kept you from coming back and teaching. Please, if you are certified and not teaching, contact your Site Coordinator or myself and get back into the program. You also, as I understand, can go onto the iZone (Instructor Zone) to sign up. If you don’t know your Site Coordinator and are unfamiliar with iZone, call me and I’ll get you to the right person.

    If you have not gotten certified yet, please sign up for the additional transition trainings that are listed below. Help us save lives in PA. In 2017 we had a 28.3 % reduction in the motorcyclist fatality rate in California - one-hundred and sixty-one (161) riders who did not die on a motorcycle in CA in 2017! Help us get up and running in PA and do the same thing here. We need each and every member of the PAMSP Team to make this happen. Please contact us and get back in the system as a part-time employee if that has been holding you back.

    If you are not yet certified in the PAMSP TCBRC, please take a look at the dates below and see if you can join one of these Transition Classes. More information, including the exact location and a link for signing up, will follow. For now, save the date.

    Additional Dates for Instructor Transition Training:

    Again, additional Information and paperwork on the part-time employee pay system will follow shortly, as well as the locations of the training and a link to enable you to sign up. Please sign up to teach if you are already certified, or sign up to get certified in the new PAMSP curriculum. Thank you to those of you who are currently teaching. To those who haven’t come on board yet or who are not teaching, thank you for all you have done for PAMSP in the past. Please come back and help us save lives in Pa! The PAMSP needs you!

    Sincerely,
    Bobbie Carlson
    bobbie@totalcontroltraining.net
    717-497-5134
    Jarlaxle likes this.
  2. ricochetrider

    ricochetrider MotoMojo

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    I originally got my MC license thru the PA Motorcycle Safety Course. I recall that some of the the folks in our class who failed the course already had their license! It's been a long time since, it is past time to go back and take the refresher c courses. I'll see if I f can sign up for the intermediate and advanced courses this year!
  3. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Ze, Zim, Zhey

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    So, Total Control tried to screw the instructors into paying for their own insurance. The instructors did the math, said "Fuck this," and quit en masse. Then Total Control said, "Yikes! We're under contract to provide classes and all our instructors just quit. Please come back!" That about the size of it?
    Jarlaxle and Luckycharms like this.
  4. outlaws justice

    outlaws justice On the Fringe

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    Jim, I am not in PA. I only know what Total Control put into writing and what the Instructors I know have told me. I posted the actual information put out by Total Control above, I think it speaks for itself. I know having been a "Contractor" teaching classes in the past for companies like TCTI and Cape Fox that I needed insurance and was even required to list TCTI as additionally insured. There was recently a discussion on the RETSORG forums concerning insurance so I thought I would share some of that in case the information would be helpful to the Instructors in PA. I have great respect for everyone involved, that does not mean I agree with the decisions made by anyone involved. I think often times people make bad decisions when thinking with the wallet instead of what is best for the customers involved. In this case, the Sites and instructors are also customers.
    KneeDrachen and Jim Moore like this.
  5. jerictownsend

    jerictownsend Adventurer

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    I don't know what happened before I started my training in PA and I'm not sure if I care. Everyone makes mistakes and bad decisions, I only care that it's fixed now.

    From the start I understood I was a part time employee working on either a W4 or 1099 (my choice) and that I didn't need to buy any additional insurance to teach BRC.
    Motonirvana likes this.
  6. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    Even if one or the other course is subjectively more rigorous or somehow "better" rather than simply different, I'd bet the differences in outcomes for students are too small to measure. Also remember there is a difference between being the curricula owner and the training provider. There are loads of States that use the MSF curricula but MSF is not directly involved in nor contracted for delivery. That said, if States are swapping over because of the curricula, there's a lot of motivation to be the organization providing the most desirable one.
  7. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    What percentage of the total riding population gets trained every year? 2%, maybe 3 or 4? I'd actually be surprised if it was that high. Even if one organization had utterly crap training and the other produced riders that NEVER crashed, it would be tough to move the data in a measurable way in just a couple of years.
    Luckycharms likes this.
  8. outlaws justice

    outlaws justice On the Fringe

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    Depends on the state, An example in New York about 70% of the riders who get licenses get it by taking the rider training course and they train about 20,000 riders each year in New York. Some states if you want a license you are required to participate in the class like Florida, they train about 40,000 riders each year. CA is not mandatory to participate in training and they train about 54,000 riders per year. Texa is not mandatory and they train about 40,000 per year.
  9. ryder1

    ryder1 Long timer

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    Msf class is the easiest way to get your license. That is how I got mine. And I convinced the AZ folks that the NM msf class was good enough.
    Luckycharms likes this.
  10. jerictownsend

    jerictownsend Adventurer

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    MSF is how I learned to ride and how I got my license in Texas. That's one of the reasons I'm teaching now, trying to give something back to the crowd.
  11. jerictownsend

    jerictownsend Adventurer

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    Taught my first class this weekend with someone who was an MSF instructor for many, many years. Lots of fun to teach, great students, and three people with no previous riding experience got their M endorsement this morning.
  12. aa3jy

    aa3jy Been here awhile

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  13. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

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    Would be great if they would get some of the old MSF training sites operational again, there used to be 2 within 25 miles of me now the nearest is 75 miles away and there are not nearly as many training days available.

    Very disappointed in their performance so far.
  14. jerictownsend

    jerictownsend Adventurer

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    It's my observation that more TCT instructors are needed to meet the demands and that many of the MSF instructors decided to quit rather than train to be TCT instructors. I've trained with a couple of ex-MSF instructors, one for more than 20 years, and they are %100 behind the TCT model. In a couple of weeks I'll have full TCT training for BRC and will teach as many classes as allowed at the CCAC Boyce location. While shadowing instructors a few weeks ago I was so happy that some "never been on a motorbike" students EARNED their M licenses.

    One downside is that PA DMV only pays about $20/hr to teach *after* you've completed a week of all-day training days. (My Adjunct Professor salary at CMU is $40/hr to teach interaction design and programming 101 to fine art students. Edit: that's to teach one class, no benefits, probably a third of what people make at tech companies like Google or Oculus.) I'm self-employed so it's easy for me to take weekday instructor training, but I have to make up those lost billing hours at night and on the weekend. Week after next I'll drive 1.5 hours each way to finish my training that runs from 8am to 3pm for three week days. Then I test in a real class over the weekend where I have to be there at 7 or 07:30, to teach a 8-6pm class for two days, with a 1.5hr commute on each end. I think I'll pay for a hotel out of pocket. IMHO sleep is not an option, it's a requirement.

    I think that the TCT program has legs. Instructor training is not only changing how I ride a motorcycle after 30 years behind the handlebars but how I drive my 4x4 TF truck. Is it "better" than MSF? I dunno, that's a hard test to do with live humans where you give each group of students different tests and see which group has more injuries or deaths. "Hard" in that it's probably unethical to experiment on humans with good/bad training systems for dangerous activities. Imagine a good/bad training test for people learning explosive ordinance disposal.
  15. aa3jy

    aa3jy Been here awhile

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    Either instructors don’t listen or are oblivious to older rider limitations..

    I was a bit surprised that after informing our PaMSP ARC class through the introduction portions at the beginning of the class that I was an older (age)rider and that my skills may be lacking due to physical limitations.. Later during range portion one of the instructors criticized my way of mounting my motorcycle a different way than the normal... I responded that my hips ..”are not OEM’s..”

    Bottom line..Pa. and as well as other States should be recruiting more senior instructors and/or imbed into their programs addressing senior riders and their skills being reduced by physical limitations..
  16. jerictownsend

    jerictownsend Adventurer

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    I walk with a cane (missing half the cartilage in one knee, torn meniscus), and I'm older than most of the students, so I am more than wiling to cut slack to people without OEM parts.
  17. jerictownsend

    jerictownsend Adventurer

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    Finished all my class/range training, have been ok'd to teach class, just need to do my supervised range training this weekend and I can teach "for real".

    Conversations with TCT staff who have never trained MSF and those who were MSF trainers has been very interesting, if not enlightening. One instructor started with TCT when they were in their mid-20s and they have a very different view of how training and experience work.
    Jim Moore likes this.
  18. aa3jy

    aa3jy Been here awhile

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    Seems the Pa. program is still being managed by the same old MSF people..was hoping Lee Parks would have brought in new management as well as new ‘trainers’ by now with new (open) thinking...
    Luckycharms likes this.
  19. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    Why? What was wrong with the old people? There were probably a few procurement people and (maybe) one or two senior program people calling the shots over the change, now you want to toss out the whole team?
  20. aa3jy

    aa3jy Been here awhile

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    Honda Gnomes being used as training motorcycles..interesting.. Though technically a motorcycle ‘cause of Engine cc and hp..they’re not much more than a mini bike on steroids..

    Yes..they are being used as training m/c ‘s here in the Pa. program..