Total Control Training is Pennsylvania's new official state program manager

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by OfirMX, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. aa3jy

    aa3jy Been here awhile

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  2. ChaoSS402

    ChaoSS402 Been here awhile

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    I don't know about now that I have a number of years ago experience on bikes but when I first got my license my insurance offered a significant discount if I had a recent certificate from an approved rider safety course. Might have been enough to cover the cost of the course.

    Also California requires (or did when I was that age) the class for riders under 21 to get their license.
  3. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    Maybe it depends on the area of the country. We put on very few advanced courses per year and almost never get them filled. Where they do fill up, I'd bet that it's the same group of riders taking them every time - NOT the ones who really need to.
  4. ryder1

    ryder1 Long timer

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    It would be nice if someone frome TCT would chime in with how many courses of each type is offered per year and where they are offered. Currently you need to input info into the website the expand your driving radius to find a class. I can find all sorts of future training areas but that doesn't help out now.
  5. ryder1

    ryder1 Long timer

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    Just did another search. Using Lancaster, Pa as the central location and a 100 mile radius there is exactly 1 location with advanced riders course. They list 3 dates
    July 31st a Wednesday 4 spots available
    Aug 11th Sunday sold out
    Oct 16th a Wednesday 4 spots available

    The rest of the locations a future training areas.

    Now I don't like working on the weekend but if my job was msf trainer I would expect that it would be a weekend job since most riders do have to work and most people work Monday to Friday.


    Total Control Training
    12520 Business Center Dr Suite C
    Victorville, CA 92395
    California (877) 743-3411
    Pennsylvania (Office) (800) 874-8900
    Pennsylvania (Registrations) (800) 845-9533
    Colorado (720) 788-7374
    Corporate (800) 943-5638
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  6. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

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    Same problem I have had, there used to be 2 training sites within 25 miles of my house with regular availability of courses. Since they took over there are no training sites within 75 miles of my house and no course availability on any day that I could possibly make it (like a weekend). So far IMO that change to the program is a total failure.
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  7. aa3jy

    aa3jy Been here awhile

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    Suggest becoming a ‘Coach’ or find someone whom is a coach or convince someone to become a coach and install a training site as I did in a certain Pa. county some years ago...
  8. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

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    You are correct, I could go that route. My point was that they seemingly completely failed to successfully engage the existing coaches and training sites that had existed in many areas for years prior to their takeover. They have continued to fail at it for over a year.
  9. jerictownsend

    jerictownsend Adventurer

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    I am finishing my TCT training this summer and can say there is a real demand for approved trainers. The spaces are there, we just need more approved trainers. Full disclaimer, if you liked the MSF pedagogy you might not like the TCT pedagogy. My advise? Suck it up, TCT has results showing that their training reduces injury and death. There are a lot of new things to learn, especially for those who started when there were still arguments about whether or not countersteering was real or not.
  10. aa3jy

    aa3jy Been here awhile

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    When the State pays for the “TCT” training..instead of the other way around..some may reconsider ..
  11. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

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    So wait, there is a shortage of instructors that they need to succeed but the trainers have to pay for the privilege? Still failing.
  12. Tall Man

    Tall Man Clean up in Aisle 46.

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    I get what you're saying here, NC.

    I'm reminded that, objectively, there's a clear parallel between Total Control Instructor trainees having to pay for their training in order to obtain a paid Instructor position (if indeed that is what's occurring), and a college student paying tuition with the expectation that a degree will provide broad opportunities for well-remunerated career positions.
  13. VX Rider

    VX Rider Long timer

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    Which would have me asking:

    How much IS the trainers cost to become a trainer?

    On average how much do they get paid per session?

    Just approximate numbers are fine for this discussion....
  14. BkerChuck

    BkerChuck Been here awhile

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    I have a couple of friends here in PA who are rider coaches under the new Total Control program, one was a rider coach under the older MSF program as well. He's asked me to consider becoming a rider coach and I have looked into it. The main problem I run into is, that for me to get the training to become certified I would need to use some of my limited vacation time to take the training courses. I understand I need to pass a CPR training and a basic first aid training course and completely understand the need for both of them. I'd also need to pay for a background check and a driver's license background check and purchase some of the course materials to get certified. Unfortunately I just don't get enough vacation time that I'm going to use several days of it and spend money to stay in a hotel somewhere in order to take the rider's coach training. I've been sent several lists of available training dates so far this year and there hasn't been one that I could fit where I could stay at home each night and take the training on a weekend without having to take at least one day off work to complete it.
  15. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

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    That is a very good question.
  16. FJRSPORT

    FJRSPORT 2WheelTraveler

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    To the ADV team,

    PAMSP is working as efficiently as possible to onboard more instructors, which will allow for more clinics to be offered to the public. To be brief, in 2018 we offered just under 900 clinics ranging from our licensing clinics such as the BRC, IRC and 3WRC, and our non-licensing clinics like the Intro To Riding (ITR) and the Advance Riding Clinics (ARC); and we did this with only 150 instructors. With nearly 250 instructors currently on board, we are offering significantly more for the 2019 season but we are still limited by the number of instructors available.

    With regards to locating a clinic as a student, the best way is to surf our web page daily (PAMSP.com) and jump on the first opportunity you can find.

    But I would suggest that...and here's my plug...if you like to ride, like to share your riding experiences with others, and have an interest in the program, then become an instructor! Hours are VERY flexible, there's the opportunity to travel to teach, we get paid to ride motorcycles, and the pay is decent. If this sounds like it could fit your lifestyle, go to PAMSP.com and click on 'Join The Team' to learn more, or just send a brief summary of your riding experience to msp-info@pa.gov.


    Instructor training is a seven 10-hour day training and will stretch your capacity to teach, but in the end, will make you a better rider and is a rewarding experience.



    I'll keep an eye on this thread and will assist in answering any questions you have about the program.

    Look forward to seeing you on the range.

    Peace
  17. FJRSPORT

    FJRSPORT 2WheelTraveler

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    Navy Chief,

    With regards to Sites no longer active, this has little to do with the new program direction as it does with the Site Vendors willing to host clinics. Sites come and go, some more than others. We just lost one of our oldest Sites due to the company's growth (building on the parking lot we used). Other Sites we lost due to them going out of business. However, we gained five new Sites this year and are now offering clinics in counties never before offered.
    As shared above, our greatest need is Instructors. While we are growing steadily, the program will benefit most from riders, such as yourself, to join our team and be part of something great in the motorcycle safety industry.

    Peace
  18. FJRSPORT

    FJRSPORT 2WheelTraveler

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    Currently, there is NO fee to be an instructor; however, plan on a $100 fee in the near future.


    Figure a little over $400 for16-hour Beginner Riding Clinic.

    Dollar per Hour, Instructors get paid more to teach the Intermediate and Advanced riding clinics.
  19. FJRSPORT

    FJRSPORT 2WheelTraveler

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    Navy Chief,

    Not to spin this thread down into a rabbit hole, but 'fail' is so subjective. Could we have done better? ABSOLUTELY! However, it would be near sited to suggest that TCTI is the culprit for MSF coaches leaving. The prior contractor saw over 50% of the instructors quit in 2013-ish and the only change most instructors felt was in management. Nevertheless, anyone who understands the change process will know that attrition is inevitable; especially when the entire curriculum has changed...as opposed to just management. With regards to 'engaging the existing coaches', we gave EVERY PAMSP coach multiple opportunities to join the new curriculum. For many, it was just the wrong time for them, and a considerable amount of that time was needed to take on the training of a new curriculum. Please know they are still welcome back!

    Regardless of all the transition struggles, TCTI is turning the program around for the better!

    Peace
  20. FJRSPORT

    FJRSPORT 2WheelTraveler

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    NC,
    As of December 2017 (When TCTI took over), the $100 fee is temporarily waived. Instructor candidates are only required to pay for a background check, 10-year driving record check, and CPR/FA.