transmission doesn't want to break loose

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by slickgj, Dec 28, 2013.

  1. slickgj

    slickgj Adventurer

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    Hey Everybody,

    I'm removing the transmission from my 2001 1150gs to check things over while I'm waiting for the snow and ice to GO AWAY!!!!

    I am at the point where everything has been nicely removed (FD, driveshaft etc.) and just the transmission is left. However, with all trans bolts removed (guide pins in place) I can't get this baby to budge. I've tried gently tapping it with a mallet all a round to try and get it to let loose but it won't.

    Anyone have any suggestions as to what I should try? Penetrating oil (was concerned about it getting on the clutch but if applied carefully maybe it's OK), heat?

    thanks (Happy Holidays/Happy New Year) :)
    #1
  2. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool Supporter

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    The guide sleeves will rust in place.(top left and bottom right viewed from the rear) Keep working at it, you'll get it.
    A dead blow hammer helps.
    #2
  3. slickgj

    slickgj Adventurer

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    thanks GS Addict,

    would some penetrating oil in the top left/bottom right holes help loosen the guide sleeves? Can't see how it would hurt, do you?

    thanks,
    #3
  4. Beecher Snipes

    Beecher Snipes Fool

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    Like they said, some oil on the pins and carefully up the force. That is the judgement of a mechanic, how much do I add to this to make it work. Evaluate ramifications and go for it. You can hit the tranny further back with a soft hammer and the leverage of the angle will multiply. ...hit the tranny sideways somewhat at the back. Make it work on its joint face. Much better than a screwdriver at the joint.
    #4
  5. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool Supporter

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    Should help. Shoot some down the holes as well as in the split (joint) if present.
    #5
  6. Chat Lunatique

    Chat Lunatique aka El Gato Loco

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    Old story retold....

    A guy has a piece of machinery that doesn't run. He calls in a tradesman to help him out . The repairman looks at the equipment, scratches his chin for a sec and then takes out a hammer and gives it one tap on the side of the frame. Immediately the equipment springs to life and starts purring along.

    He then packs up his tools and presents the owner with a bill for $305 dollars. Sputtering, the owner asks the repairman how he can justify such a bill for 2 minutes work.

    "Well sir, it's like this. I charged you $5 for the hammer blow and $300 for the years of experience to know where to hit it"

    Like GSAddict sez...a dead blow hammer with gentle taps, progressively harder until she pops. Or you can pay someone like me to hit it :lol3
    #6
  7. 100RT

    100RT Long timer

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    I had the same problem with my 03 RT. My solution was to use a tie down strap and hook it to the overhead garage door spring then use the ratchet to slowly pull it loose. The bike was strapped down to the lift.
    [​IMG]
    #7
  8. slickgj

    slickgj Adventurer

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    Thanks everyone, I will slowly up the force and use a little penetrating oil (it's penetrating as I type :nod). I'll let you know how it goes. I figured it was better to ask just in case there is something simple I was overlooking. I appreciate all the input.

    That is funny. I'm going to continue using the deadblow hammer and penetrating oil as step 1. I'll keep your solution in mind though.

    thanks everyone
    #8
  9. Zoef zoef

    Zoef zoef Long timer

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    These transmissions can indeed be quite stuck. Tapping with rubber hammer is required, in my experience.
    Before gearbox removal, it is found wise to remove the clutch push rod before. These clutch rods can easily get bent otherwise.
    #9
  10. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool Supporter

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    Good advice.
    #10
  11. slickgj

    slickgj Adventurer

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    Definitely good advice. I have tried removing the push rod already but without success

    I'm wondering if I'm struggling with a little corrosion that has the pushrod "frozen" in place. I don't want to damage the end trying to get it out though. thoughts?

    I was wondering if I might have corrosion on the splines which is not allowing the transmission to pull away - although the visible portion of the splines do no look rusted at all so it might just be like GS Addict said that the sleeves are just corroded.

    I have been able to achieve a small gap 1-2mm all around the housing by using a deadblow hammer and just working left, right, up, down as best I can. I can now rock the trans housing a little (a few mm - enough to take up gap around push-rod) but I am still unable to pull it away.

    I've applied a little more penetrating solution to the guide pin holes and will let it soak a little longer. I'd rather be gentle and take my time than break something.
    #11
  12. jdub

    jdub Dawg bytes reel gud Supporter

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    The front end of the clutch pushrod was stuck fast to the diaphragm spring on my '94 R1100RS when I had to pull that gearbox to change the clutch. I ended up destroying the aft end of the pushrod in trying to break it free before I took the gearbox off, so if your pushrod is also stuck you really have nothing to lose by leaving it in place and trying to pull the gearbox straight back until the front end of the pushrod is exposed and maybe then you can break it free with no damage (its tapered front end mates to the spring). No corrosion on the pushrod tapered end, it was just stuck tight.

    The gearbox on my GSA was stuck to the engine case like yours, and was due to corrosion at the locating dowels. I used a wide and thick tapered putty knife and continually tapped it around the circumference of the mating surfaces to break them free until I could fully remove the gearbox.

    Good luck.
    #12
  13. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool Supporter

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    Keep working at it if you now have a gap. It will come.
    #13
  14. slickgj

    slickgj Adventurer

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    :clap thanks everyone for your advice and encouragement. It was only a matter of time once I knew there wasn't something I was missing. GS Addict you were correct. It was just the guide sleeves that has seized up a little.

    The putty knife idea was brilliant. Once I thought about it I used a putty knife (3 near the end) and some shims to maintain the gap left and right while continuing to tap the trans left and right with a deadblow hammer. This allowed the gaps to continue to open up more and more while the shims/putty knives were adjusted to take up the additional gap gained with each adjustment. Eventually she was all the way out.

    So the trans is now sitting on the lift table and I'm ready to move ahead. If anyone is interested in seeing the condition of the splines on the FD, driveshaft, Trans or clutch assembly (for interest sake) just let me know and I'll post some pics. For a bike with over 130,000miles they look fantastic.

    thanks again gentlemen, much appreciated. :clap

    Next.... time to check the clutch
    #14
  15. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool Supporter

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    Has it been apart before? If not, I would be most interested to see the spline condition on both parts.
    Please post!
    #15
  16. slickgj

    slickgj Adventurer

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    According to the maintenance records I have from the original owner a spline lube was done at about 45K miles. I believe that it was the FD splines, not the trans/clutch splines but I'm not 100% sure. I will find out.

    The FD big bearing was replaced at around 95K miles but the shaft is original.

    You can see all the pictures here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bmq7ht70accbl64/FLBMKzyg2U
    #16
  17. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool Supporter

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    Wow! Those splines are in excellent condition!

    You may want to put the updated Buna N seal c/w felt on the input shaft while you are in there. It is brown in color.
    #17
  18. slickgj

    slickgj Adventurer

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    Ya, I thought so too. I was very impressed after over 130,000 miles that things look so good.

    Ok, thanks for the tip. I'll look into that. Would you recommend just that seal on the input shaft or all seals?

    Currently the seals all look like they are in good shape but if it's worth it I can update with the new seal(s).
    #18
  19. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    Thanks for the great collection of photos. Since your splines are in good condition, I'm wondering if you'd measured the play between the clutch disc and shaft before you remove the transmission. Also, it looks like you cleaned off the input shaft and clutch hub, which looked dry and rusted when you took it apart. Am I interpreting that right?
    #19
  20. slickgj

    slickgj Adventurer

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    Hey Roger, I did not measure the play. Would that be done by putting the trans in gear, and then seeing how much rotation I get on the driveshaft? I actually did that but was not thinking about measuring (was just checking if I was in neutral or not. It did rotate back and forth a bit before it stopped but I don't recall how much. If I had to guess I would think it was maybe 1/8 rotation or less but that's just a guess.

    Had I measured this what would it have told me (health of clutch plate/spring etc.)?

    If it's really valuable I could put the trans back on, measure and take it back off (after I clean up those guide sleeves :evil).

    yes, that is correct, you can see both the before and after photos. The clutch/input splines were very dry but not very corroded. it really took very little effort to clean them up. A soft brass brush and mainly dental pics to get the dirt out.

    I did confirm with the previous owner that the clutch/input shaft splines were lubed at about 47,500Miles (actual miles - not speedo miles :evil ) as a precaution to ensure that they were in fact lubed at the factory (I guess there was some question about some bikes which may not have been factory lubed).
    #20