Trials Training & Events - Thumpers Only

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by motobene, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 49 years Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Oddometer:
    6,237
    Location:
    Wichita Mountains SW Oklahoma
    I have an idea that needs 'splaining. Trials bikes are 'thumpers' too, but by thumper I mean non-trials bikes, single cylinder, 2 or four stroke, street legal or not.

    As a long time trials rider (36 years) involved in competition and training and event setting, AND as a returnee to my fast bike roots with the purchase of a 2019 Beta 390 RR-S this year, I'm wondering....

    How much interest would there be in:

    - Trials techniques courses, not on trials bikes but on your Enduro, Motocross, dualsport bikes?

    - Trials competition in a new sport for non-trials bikes, with sections set up much more open and easy than the typical trials event. The sections would be much longer, but scored the same:

    Lower scores are better. Points in a section are:
    1 footing = 1 point
    2 footings = 2 points
    3 footings = 3 points and thereafter you can paddle all you want, it's still 3 points.

    Failure to complete, stalling with foot down, crashing, out of bounds, missing a skill level gate, all are considered a failure for 5 points.

    I discussed offering trials training for dualsporters about 7 years ago. Despite significant interest I decided against it. I worried about liability doing the courses on my ranch. I instead did trials training courses several years, trials bikes only, with no problems. But trials riders are few so I think I ignored a much bigger possibility.

    Our regional club had a 'knobby class' for non trials but it died. Knobby was on the easiest trials line, but that was still too hard for non trials riders on the bigger bikes. Who wants to come back to an event to be shown up again for the skills they lack? It's just GOT to be about fun. Some challenge is OK, but not too much.

    I'm thinking some training followed by a fun event where the sections are only for the bigger, heavier, faster bikes. Each section is far more roomy and longer, and there are fewer sections. Say 4 sections on a loop trail ridden 3 loops, for 12 sections. Everyone stops to walk and talk about each section and all watch. Very social!

    Eventually maybe at most three 'lines' in the sections. Blue (high), Yellow (medium), and Pink (diliniated by 'gates'). Any number of classes can be assigned to a line.

    Sorry, some of this terminology will be strange. Trust me when I say you can understand it all with one event experience.

    The whole event would be designed for fun with just enough challenge to make it very interesting, with the lowest line being like riding a trail.

    The riders would leave hopefully having had a ton of fun while toting away skills to ride more competently and safely in all their other venues.

    Your interest? Thoughts?
    #1
  2. Lewilewi

    Lewilewi Ride it like you stole it......

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Oddometer:
    1,863
    Location:
    Europe
    It's already being done to death, the world over, just google enduro schools etc theres thousands, lots of big names involved, enduro schools cover the trial aspect too, as the trials aspect is part of enduro
    #2
  3. Bultaco206

    Bultaco206 Back-to-back motos suck Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    36,055
    Location:
    Mineral Point, WI
    Trials-ish training on bikes that someone would ride in the knobby class is a great idea. Problem is, the masses...especially the young guys...have bought into the whole Hard Enduro craze. So you might have a hard time teaching fundamentals because everyone wants to mimic what they see their favorite rider do. Just a hunch.
    #3
    North ride and mylsmkj like this.
  4. mylsmkj

    mylsmkj Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2010
    Oddometer:
    7,386
    Location:
    Rocky Mountain High Colorado
    I think anyone that's even moderately serious about it trials trains as well. It would be fairly hard to set up a course that has the bigger moves that are fun on a big bike but also the trials skills. If you set up ribbon like a trials course then people that haven't spent a bunch of time learning static balance on a big bike would get discouraged. It would have to be a mix to be fun I think.

    Easy isn't the only key.
    #4
    North ride and Bultaco206 like this.
  5. Bultaco206

    Bultaco206 Back-to-back motos suck Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    36,055
    Location:
    Mineral Point, WI
    I’d think it would have to focus more on fundamentals more than specific moves. I’m talking full-lock turns, static balance, body position, braking, small logs, techniques for finding traction, et al. Those are all elements that would serve any rider, on any bike, in most any situation.

    I’d worry a young guy would get bored and break out into a full Jarvis-like move when all he needs to do is cross an 8” log without augering-in hard. :photog
    #5
    North ride and mylsmkj like this.
  6. mylsmkj

    mylsmkj Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2010
    Oddometer:
    7,386
    Location:
    Rocky Mountain High Colorado
    I agree that's exactly how to get better but to get moderately wide acceptance and have people say that they got better AND had fun then you'd have to have some of those fun ledge/log type moves too.... but as sections move along have shorter run ups and tighter turns that require not only full lock turns but a front wheel hop or two as well.
    #6
    Bultaco206 likes this.
  7. Lewilewi

    Lewilewi Ride it like you stole it......

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Oddometer:
    1,863
    Location:
    Europe

    And what's hard enduro.....trials crossed with enduro....its already being done to death...

    If your gonna teach it , and survive the competition, you better be good to gain a credible rep
    #7
  8. lamotovita

    lamotovita DAMN SNOWBIRD!

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,862
    Location:
    WA/AZ, USA
    I'd love to see you do it.
    I wouldn't call it "Trials techniques" though, maybe hard enduro or extreme enduro. A common misconception is that Trials technique is hopping around on the rear wheel and splattering big walls. Riders naturally can't relate their riding to that.
    The Trials competition for dirt bikes makes perfect sense to me, I'd love to see it. I tried for years to encourage/develope a trailbike class for our local Trials events, thinking it would give riders a chance to try out trials without buying another bike. What I found though, in my area, is that for every rider that wanted to give trials a try on their dirt bike there were a couple dozen riders who wanted to buy trials bikes just to have them, with no interest in riding trials events so buying a bike wasn't really stopping anybody. Section design would be different, building sections that would stand up to a day of repeated rides by big bikes, especially with knobbies, will be very different than Trials bike sections that a couple of months after running a fifty rider event you can't even tell they were ever there.
    I encourage you to pursue your ideas.
    #8
    North ride and mylsmkj like this.
  9. mylsmkj

    mylsmkj Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2010
    Oddometer:
    7,386
    Location:
    Rocky Mountain High Colorado
    To get to the point of your post, I would be interested. Especially if there was an optional trials training day before.
    #9
    North ride likes this.
  10. Wire hand

    Wire hand Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Oddometer:
    88
    Location:
    Southwest kansas
    I always intended to ride the knobby line at our trials when we had it on my Kdx but it seemed that I had it prepped and ready to race an enduro the weekend after the trials so I never did it.I got into trials 6 years ago and since then I have gotten so much better in the enduro cross sections at the enduros that have them.Some of the guys I have raced with forever just refuse to believe that trials done that for me.I still get passed out in the open because I am more of a participant than true racer but I love to race the tight stuff.Holding it open in sixth gear is not going to happen these days.After getting into trials my son and I would set sections for our big bikes,his a 200exc,and we had so much fun doing that.I am torn between Enduro and Trials as love them both.I definitely would attend a big bike trials if time allowed.
    #10
  11. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 49 years Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Oddometer:
    6,237
    Location:
    Wichita Mountains SW Oklahoma
    Cool. It would be a test. If interest is great I could take it to the next level.

    For starters it'd be a weekend thing, at my ranch or a 1-day thing elsewhere. It would be in the cooler part of the year.

    I don't think anyone has done this before. I can't recall anyone setting up trials sections with no trials bikes to ride them, thus not skewing the sections toward trials bikes.

    A trials rider on a bigger bike can do OK in the lower trials sections, but the typical non trials rider ends up with his 'dick in the dirt' (an Okie-ism), even on the lower lines. Only a small minority would actually want that for themselves.
    #11
    North ride, Yeti2ride and Bultaco206 like this.
  12. Wire hand

    Wire hand Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Oddometer:
    88
    Location:
    Southwest kansas
    There are some guys at the Avta in Wichita who also dual sport who may be interested.Also there are tscec guys in your area who I am almost certain would be interested.Some from the black jack enduro circuit as well.It would need to be posted on their forums and see what happens.
    #12
    motobene likes this.
  13. Wire hand

    Wire hand Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Oddometer:
    88
    Location:
    Southwest kansas
    By the way ‘dick in the dirt’ was one of different degrees or measurements of the strength of booze where I grew up.
    #13
    motobene likes this.
  14. Harry Potter

    Harry Potter Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Oddometer:
    544
    Last year at Trials Training Days, Charlie had an instructor for Trials Training on Enduro bikes. I did a half day with the guy and it was very well done. Also Steve Hatch includes Trials Training in his Enduro Clinics. Where I live, the few teenage riders that there are, only want to do Motocross and nothing slow.
    #14
  15. Razor85

    Razor85 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2011
    Oddometer:
    49
    This is exactly what I would be interested in. Did not know they included that this past year at TTD's. I was not able to attend in 2019. Was attendance good for this class?
    #15
    Wire hand likes this.
  16. Harry Potter

    Harry Potter Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Oddometer:
    544

    The class was not well attended which is why I jumped in. All those interested for next year I would start letting Charlie know now. The instructor was very good but Charlie might not bring him back because so few signed up. Of those who attended there was a good showing of youth. Cheers to those parents who start their kids right.
    #16
  17. Yeti2ride

    Yeti2ride Adventurer

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Oddometer:
    98
    Location:
    Weatherford, Tx
    I'd be willing to sign up ! Maybe newer bike beforehand, but XR250 otherwise.
    #17
  18. Razor85

    Razor85 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2011
    Oddometer:
    49
    I am either buying a newer trials bike or a KTM300xcw. What I like about the trials bike is you can practice with very little land. I have a area that's perfect for this. The drawback is I like to ride offroad also. If I could do this practice at home with a full sized bike maybe it would be the best of both worlds. Unfortunately can't have two bikes. Anyone see advantages or disadvantages with this idea?
    #18
  19. Wire hand

    Wire hand Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Oddometer:
    88
    Location:
    Southwest kansas
    I love trials I wish I had discovered it earlier.For me if I could only have one bike it would be the KTM.You can go slow and do trials things on it,you can go as fast as you dare to go,you can race harescrambles enduros,long trail rides and sit down when you want.with the trials bike you can get the seat but going fast and racing is out.I do go fast on my trials bike but it is not fun.At one point I thought of quitting enduro and off road racing and only competing in trials.I test rode a motesa with the seat.That is an awkward position sitting down and for me a non starterI.I quickly came to my senses let that notion go by the wayside.I would just have both.There are used trials bikes out there at very reasonable prices that will last a long time and take very little upkeep compared to racing a big bike.We have two that we paid $1500 for and have been riding one of them for six years.
    #19
  20. Razor85

    Razor85 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2011
    Oddometer:
    49
    Thanks for the reply. I am going to research this subject a little more to see what it would take to set up a big bike practice area. I think this slower, technical style would really help me overall. If all works out I will be at TTD's in 2020.
    #20