Two stroke as an adventure bike

Discussion in '2 smokers' started by Shawnspeed, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. pdxjim

    pdxjim Two Stroke Terror

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Oddometer:
    275
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I'll be doing the Oregon Backcountry Discovery Route in a few weeks on my '13 KTM 300 xcw. Should be about 1500mi in 9 days.

    Taller 14/46 gearing, a 4.1gallon tank and new tires are about the only prep I've done.

    I've done lots of 2T sport touring on my TZR250 and TDR250 in the past, so not too worried about it.

    Thumbing the kill switch on long descents or after a a long straight helps to cool the fire while keeping the fuel flowing.
    #21
  2. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    10,096
    Location:
    alabama
    Over the last few years I've been riding my kdx220 wherever I liked. I slid some street tires on it for gymkhana once, did hare scrambles, and a bunch of exploring. The only bad thing I encountered was my toes hurting after a 45 minute ride back to camp at 65mph. Yes, the vibrations hurt that night.

    Other than having to steal a gallon of gas from another bike once or twice, no problems with dual sporting it. Ice averaged 28mpg in dual sport mode, similar in the trails. The new top and bottom end should help those numbers once I'm done with the rich break in jetting.

    The fun that happens fat outweighs the extra teen seconds needed at the fuel stops.

    KIMG0320.jpg
    #22
    custmmc likes this.
  3. Nesquik

    Nesquik Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Oddometer:
    4,513
    Location:
    Kenosha
    I'm really intrigued. I'm debating on plating my CRF230F or buying a KDX and plating that.
    #23
  4. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    10,096
    Location:
    alabama
    either one for exploring. I gave up on the "omg I have to have all this brand new crap for that race next weekend!!" thing a while back, so a 230 would be fine for me. I just happen to have a kdx :-)
    #24
  5. YamaGeek

    YamaGeek Skeletor sparklemuffin.

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Oddometer:
    32,589
    Location:
    western oregon
    Back in 1981 I had a nearly new old stock 1977 Hodaka Road Toad that I took on a few long day rides.

    Since the legal highway speed then was 55 and this bike was happy at 45 to 50 mph, I always tried to take backroads. The nice thing about the RT 100 was it had a big fuel tank. I think they were 2.6 gallons, which are huge by normal tiddler DS bike fuel tank sizes. The Hodaka's oil injection and electronic ignition were also very reliable, nice tool kit, and that torquey, piston ported, reed box engine with a wide ratio 5 speed that pulled like a rotary valve 2 cycle.

    They also got about 50~65 mpg.

    Much better than my Honda Elsie MT250 which got maybe 35 mpg and had a 2 gallon tank.

    About the 2 cycles seizing on long downhills. This was usually because in a premix engines you start losing lube due to scavenging and very little fuel-air carrying enough oil to keep the piston happy at 5K rpm in an iron bore. Which is part of why the Japanese introduced oil injection. You also used less oil per refuel than premix and the attendant problems with premixing at the gas pump. Oil injection systems have always worked for me. I don't understand why someone would remove something that never wears out, and works irregardless with very little attention or maintenance.
    #25
    ausfahrt likes this.
  6. MATTY

    MATTY BORDER RAIDER

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2014
    Oddometer:
    4,990
    Location:
    England On the Scotish border
    People premix in 2 strokes for added confidence its not a quick easy option its just the feeling of reassurance premix can give, Autolube CCI style lube systems are full of benefits and purported cleaner running less carbon no mixing at pumps designed in oil metering allegedly prolonging lifespan of the engine, all are often quoted and to a pretty large extent are based in sound facts these systems are without question very very reliable.
    But they are not full prof and they can break down I would rather have the reassurance of controlling the oil via premix that is 100% guaranteed to lubricate the engine rather than relying on an oil pump that can fail without me even noticing until its too late.
    Clark invented the two stroke to run premix i personally believe he got that part right.
    #26
  7. YamaGeek

    YamaGeek Skeletor sparklemuffin.

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Oddometer:
    32,589
    Location:
    western oregon
    Respectfully, I've been operating 2 cycle cars and bikes since 1971. I have never encountered an intact oil injection system that didn't work or couldn't be made to work with some small effort. I've had carbs, pistons and rings, and ignition systems all go out of adjustment or fail at one point or another on these vehicles, none of which were precipitated by the oil injection systems failing, *if* it was intact and operating as per manufacturer's data, with a full tank of oil. These pumps have little to no working stress and they're bathed in absolutely clean lubricant.

    They are the least likely to fail part of this old technology.

    Not one failure in my experience. And I've driven and ridden a lot of miles on two strokes. I've recovered an old SAAB 2 cycle car from the 1960's with injection system that was functional after being stored in the weather for 18 years. A Yamaha Twinjet 100 in a barn with years of 'coastal anodizing' that the Autolube injector was still operative despite there being water and dirt in the gas tank and carbs.

    I have experienced a soft seize on a bike that was premix, that I could not get accurate factory petroil ratios for. I could blame that one on carb jetting, but I was splitting the difference and using a 25:1 ratio. So yeah I beg to differ, in what limited anecdotal, but based on sound observation and experience, and strongly backed up by the shop owners and experienced mechanics who serviced these bikes and cars, experiences I've had.

    You do realize that both Suzuki's CCI and SAAB's Shrike and Sport engines with direct oil injection to the main crank bearings are both strongly recommended to not disable their oil injections systems?

    Do you know why?
    #27
    sprouty115 and JCool like this.
  8. YamaGeek

    YamaGeek Skeletor sparklemuffin.

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Oddometer:
    32,589
    Location:
    western oregon
    Premix will never be 100% reliable *if*, in the heat of refilling your bike at the filling station, you forget to fully mix the required oil with the gas. It's especially not reliable when substituted for the CCI system or any other direct oil injection that feeds oil into a metal shielded or 'stuffed crank' type main bearing. You can never get enough oil to an engine bearing that is shielded off from the rest of the crankcase, with premix lubrication without using some ridiculously high oil to fuel ratios.

    The idea of an oil injection system is to keep the oil from mixing with the fuel-air mix as long as possible so it lubricates at full viscosity, protecting the engine parts as a mobile oil film that eventually works it's way to the cylinder, and burned in much smaller amounts than it would if mixed with the fuel.
    #28
    ausfahrt and JCool like this.
  9. ErikMotoMan

    ErikMotoMan Airbag crash survivor!

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2014
    Oddometer:
    4,486
    Location:
    In Motorcycle Heaven since 1990 - So Cal!
    Here's an observation: I've put over 400 hours on a Rotax 532 in a Kitfox 1 aircraft that pretty much ran at 6000 rpm all the time. I chose to run Redline Synthetic 2 stroke Oil from Day 1. You're supposed to rebuild these Engines every 250 Hours. Well, it didn't even need new rings, but got them anyway. My point is this: spend the extra $ for the best oil you can find.
    #29
  10. juicy flawless

    juicy flawless Toxic Raccoon

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Oddometer:
    527
    Fucking sick of this *best baby oil* :baby :bash

    *Insufficient oil presence reduces engine life.

    *Lean jetting reduces engine life.

    dropped-mic-imma-just-leave-this-right-here.jpg
    #30
  11. bajaburro

    bajaburro Ancient Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,314
    Location:
    Huntington Beach CA
    I raced a 465 and 490 in many baja races in the 80's.We always had a handle bar choke.Always wide open on dry lakes and pavement,no problem's.Just hit the choke now and then and cool the motor.
    #31
    ohgood, MATTY and Strong Bad like this.
  12. BENriding

    BENriding Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Oddometer:
    16
    Couple months old thread but thought I'd throw this in-
    I run my Beta 300RR (Plated) in dual sports as well as HS, and enduro, trail, ride to town to wash it at the car wash. I don't ride a lot of pavement but if set up (gearing, tires, upgrade charging system, and lights etc.) believe it would be fine. It does have oil injection so don't have to premix and can easily borrow gas to or from 4 stroke bikes. I have a 3.1 gal tank, mileage seems comparable to the 4 strokes I ride with.
    #32
    malignity and danketchpel like this.
  13. malignity

    malignity Wonton

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Oddometer:
    4,735
    Location:
    Sanford, MI

    No issues with your oiler? Seems that's been the only issue with the "new/old" setup for Beta, is the oilers going out -- supposedly. Read a handful of reports about it.

    I remember my oiler went out on my Kawasaki Big Horn 350 once. I guess it was pretty common though in that bike.
    #33
  14. MATTY

    MATTY BORDER RAIDER

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2014
    Oddometer:
    4,990
    Location:
    England On the Scotish border
    Thought i would mention this here, I just undertook a 425 mile run from my home on the scotish border to bude in cornwall. Mostly motorway i did it on my IZH planeta sport 350 in just under 8 hours going down, i stayed overenight down there. and returned the next day, that run home i did stop sight seeing a couple of times and it took 9 hours.
    Apart from chain adjustment in cornwall and fuel stops the bike ran great never missed a beat.
    I have covered many thousands of miles on this bike over 17 or so years its proved very tough and reliable.
    #34
  15. RayAlazzurra

    RayAlazzurra Stuck in the Eighties

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Oddometer:
    334
    Location:
    Florence, KY, USA
    I'd love a 2 stroke ADV bike! For now I shall have to be happy with my KE100 day tripper. Must haves:

    1. Sophisticated oil injection. The old Suzuki TS-185 was good in this regard. With modern ISO EGD oils you just don't need much oil.

    2. A stratified charge engine. There are papers and patents on strato 2 strokes going back as far as 1963 at least. Only recently has this technology become popular in lawn equipment. The advantages are much better fuel economy, better part throttle response, and much lower emissions since raw mixture is not dumped out of the exhaust. One still has the simplicity and power to weight advantage of the mighty two stroke.

    I need to ride a Beta 300RR. If there was only a way to get a license plate on it. This is the big hurdle that the 2 stroke ADV concept faces--why invest the money and time in building a modern 2 stroke ADV that can almost, but not quite, become street legal.
    #35
  16. RayAlazzurra

    RayAlazzurra Stuck in the Eighties

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Oddometer:
    334
    Location:
    Florence, KY, USA
    Awww. Who doesn't love yet another oil thread? The thing is that there is not "best" oil. Is your bike air or liquid cooled? What is the peak ring temp? Should your oil contain bright stock or PIB as an additive? Does your bike have a powervalve? Some of the best 2 cycle oils for real world use are very affordable and meet JASO-FD, or ISO-EGD's latest spec. Some expensive oils marketed as synthetic super dooper slick may not meet these specs. We all have our preferences. What I like best is probably not your favorite, and that's ok.
    #36
  17. Bucho

    Bucho DAMNrider

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Oddometer:
    4,456
    Location:
    Maryland

    I have a Beta XT. Been riding it as my dirtbike with some light dualsporting thrown in. Has worked very well. No issues at all with the oil system. Not that premix is a big deal, but I like the auto oil thing. The bike hardly smokes at all compaired to other 2T enduro bikes.
    #37
    malignity likes this.
  18. Bill Harris

    Bill Harris Confirmed Curmudgeon

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    9,874
    Location:
    backwoods Alabama
    Oil injection is technologically wonderful, but oil premix is so quaint. :)
    #38
    MATTY likes this.
  19. Jimo368

    Jimo368 Quantum Mechanic

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Oddometer:
    574
    Location:
    Northwestern Ontario
    Here is my DT200 in 1991. It would work great as an adventure bike, if you could find one. I had the cage in the crankcase bearing let go at about 10,000 miles and I rebuilt it myself. Great bike, more power than you would think. I traded it for a KLR and that was a big mistake. 54D3EDFA-C004-4BC0-A2C6-D247581CC030.jpeg
    #39
  20. MATTY

    MATTY BORDER RAIDER

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2014
    Oddometer:
    4,990
    Location:
    England On the Scotish border
    Never seen a 20o dt but i had dt175mx and a dt250mx so i know roughly where you are coming from regarding your 200. Fantastic bikes the DTs i did huge mileages on both mine over years as work bikes everyday, they proved reliable and essay to maintain i think would be ideal adv bikes in my opinion.
    #40