Ultra rugged Kyocera phones,GPS smartphones ..my guide

Discussion in 'GPS 101 - Which GPS For Me' started by PDX Alamo, Feb 19, 2017.

  1. dazzadm

    dazzadm Long timer

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    Made my own mount and had originally used pogo pins to power up the phone. Had lots of issues keeping it connected and found the rain had started to corrode the contacts.

    I had bought a couple of cheap wireless chargers from china so removed the case as it was too big and modified the mount to fit it in to. I epoxy resigned the coil in the mount and silicones the electronics to the back to weather proof it.

    So far it is working great. Better than the pogo pins ever did. Also reduced the brightness level slightly on the display, I can now end a days ride with a fully charged battery.
    20210227_194127.jpg 20210227_194038.jpg
    I had to paint the silicon as the electronics have LED lights that pulse as it is charging, most annoying at night...
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  2. Yooper_Bob

    Yooper_Bob Insert witty saying here....

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    WP7?
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  3. Mcaanda

    Mcaanda Adventurer

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    It is ya. Guess I could have put that in there. :fpalm
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  4. Yooper_Bob

    Yooper_Bob Insert witty saying here....

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    Same phone I am interested in. Amazon had them on sale for $330 last weekend....I almost pulled the trigger.
  5. Mcaanda

    Mcaanda Adventurer

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    Overall it seems like a nice phone. I was really wanting something w/ wireless charging and this does not seem to have it. I have had it on 2 different chargers and they only blink red. Put a Samsung phone on it and goes green. The same on both chargers.

    I think this one is destined to head back to Amazon. Too bad...
  6. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    wanna give us a full review?
  7. scootertrog

    scootertrog Jedi Fart Master

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    Anyone else experiencing slow gps speed updating? The last couple weeks, I've noticed that the unit is reporting very slow speed and speed reaction time.

    Example: From a standstill, if I excelerate up to 45 mph normally, the gps will be lagging way behind, like a good 10 mph or so (from a very accurate car speedo, not the bike). The location chevron doesn't seem to be affected, it's just the speed. It's like the speed part of the display is stuck in molasses.
  8. Mcaanda

    Mcaanda Adventurer

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    I actually sent it back. Said wireless charging on the Amazon page where I purchased it, but does not have wireless charging. I ended up purchasing a DOOGEE S88 Pro which says wireless charging at the companies website so we should be GTG with that one. I'll post a couple pics and thoughts when it comes in.
  9. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    A GPS measures speed by comparing positions over time and calculating how far you travelled in a given time. Due to the processing time required to come up with a position, the frequency with which satellites transmit updated data and the position uncertainty over small distances, there is quite a bit of filtering to ensure the speed is not jumping all over the place. There are ways to interpolate acceleration and predict what the speed should be at any given time but these can result in overshooting as you transition from braking to acceleration or vice-versa so they are not usually used. As a result, the displayed speed is at least a second behind actual speed (as measured with a vehicle speedometer), possibly more. The speedo on the vehicle is also going to have some damping, whether physical or software) to prevent it from jumping around all the time. If you are accelerating hard, the speedo will lag actual (instantaneous) speed slightly but not as much as GPS speed will.

    Some devices are designed to give more accurate speed readings and will use GPS to periodically verify and recalibrate inertial sensors, which can give very fast updates of motion in any direction, allowing true speeds to be displayed. There will STILL be some damping to account for vibration effects, etc. but to a human observer, the display will be essentially instantaneous. I don't think most commercially available GS units can do this although some use the same technology to track changes in speed and direction when satellite signals are not available, such as when passing through a tunnel or under metal structure. In theory the IMU built into a vehicle's ABS/TC systems can provide the same data but I'm not sure if this is implemented in car or bike systems as the direct speed readings from an electronic speed sensor such as a tone ring, will be almost as quick to update.
  10. somepunk22

    somepunk22 Been here awhile

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    Curious how that is. Ordered the S96 from Banggood for $220.
  11. scootertrog

    scootertrog Jedi Fart Master

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    I understand all this, I'm just saying that there is a big-time, very noticeable lag on the speed readout that I did not have before. Something has def changed from say, about a month or so ago. I have not been using the gps lately so I'm not sure exactly when the change/problem took place. The gps speed used to keep up pretty darn close to my vehicle's speed, now it's way slow to change speed.
  12. Mcaanda

    Mcaanda Adventurer

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    Wonder if being that its not been used lately that the almanac and ephemerides are outdated? How long after you turned it on did it sit ( with clear view of the skies and not moving ) before you headed out?

    Totally guessing here, but if its working with outdated estimations that could possibly lead to slow and inaccurate results? May try to re-download the AGPS and let it sit out for a while to see if that may assist with your speed issues.


    I really looked at that one as well. They are very close in specs but it looks like the 88 has a larger battery which I figured may come in handy when Im out w/ my Talon.
  13. Kainic

    Kainic Almost there

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    Where did you buy it from?
  14. Mcaanda

    Mcaanda Adventurer

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    Banggood
  15. Kainic

    Kainic Almost there

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    I also ordered same phone with fingers crossed.
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  16. MarkH67

    MarkH67 Been here awhile

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    I've been doing some testing with my Ulefone Armor 10 and wireless, so far it hasn't gone well.
    It charges fine if I sit it on the Samsung wireless charger that I got with my Note 10+, so it definitely has working wireless.
    My Note 10+ charges on the Juiced Squeeze but the Armor 10 only briefly starts & stops again, and that is only I position it just right.
    My Note 10+ charges on the Quad Lock weather resistant wireless charging head. The Armor 10 will charge with the wireless head, but not if it has the Quad Lock universal mount in between - so that's a fail.

    On the wireless chargers:
    The Juiced Squeeze is only pulling ~7w while charging my Note 10+ compared to ~2w while powered on but with no phone, they claim 10w charging. Powered by 12V, lead supplied.
    The Quad Lock is also pulling ~7W while charging but ~0W with no phone. Powered by USB-C, cable with weather sealed plug supplied (actually 2 cables, one short & one long).
    Both work with my Note 10+ and both fail with my Armor 10, neither are very fast so they may or may not keep up with the drain while navigating. Whether I'd recommend either would depend on whether you phone would work with them and whether the ~7w would be enough.

    I may end up just going with wired charging and use a magnetic USB cable, at least it will work and I can get 18w from my QC3.0 USB sockets on the bike.

    The perfect squeeze mount is really good, clamps the phone very well and I don't think the phone would ever move, I have the Buzz-Kill as well to reduce vibrations. I can mount just about any phone with or without a case and don't need a special case or to stick a mount on the phone. If the wireless charger were upgraded to a 15w that worked well with my Armor 10 then this would probably be my preferred option.

    The Quad Lock wireless head does NOT have the locking mechanism. The phone probably wouldn't come off, but maybe if it was bumped? This mount would not be a bad option to use in the car with my Note 10+, but I'm not sure about using it on the bike. I have a case coming for the Armor 10 which I'll try a Quad Lock universal mount on, with the idea of using it on the bike with the standard Quad Lock mount and wired charging. The Quad Lock system has the advantage that it is very quick & easy to take the phone on & off the mount so you don't have to leave it on the bike when you stop.
  17. Mcaanda

    Mcaanda Adventurer

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    Hey Mark - you happen to have any pics of your setup? Curious to see how you have yours set, as I have been pondering something along the same lines you have w/ my bike.
  18. AdvNener

    AdvNener Long timer

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    Actually... no
    I always wondered how speed could be so accurate in GPS (as i thought it was derived from position), when position could so easily be several meter off. Seemed like it would need a ton of smoothing. Then I discovered that "modern" gps determine speed (and maybe bearing.. this remains unclear for me) by using the doppler shift of the satellite signals. I played around this while developping a roadbook app with tripmeter requirement. Integrating the reported gps speed instead of using gps position was muuuuuh more precise and reliable (still using gps position to correct "long term" drift).

    Possibly some devices (especially phones) may use their accelerator sensors to help refine speed measurement too..

    /nerdtalk.
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  19. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    I used to work on a development team for navigation and hydrographic surveying software. Interpolating positions was how we calculated speed. We had to account for the GPS antennae typically being high up on a ship that was rocking, so we used an inertial measurement unit to provide that information and backed it out of the position data. As a physicist by education, doppler shift measurements are a lot more interesting. From a practical standpoint, the extra hardware involved in decoding the frequency shifts and the calculations required to turn that into a vector for the receiver, relative to all the other motions are exceedingly challenging. It's not beyond the technology required to receive, decode and triangulate from satellite signals in the first place but that functionality has come to be available in a single, relatively inexpensive chip and I'm not sure the doppler technology has been implemented in a similar way yet. At the time I was working with this technology (mid 90's), doppler measurement systems were extremely expensive and also would have provided data that still had to be corrected for rocking motion. It was a lot easier to ignore the speed calculated directly by the GPS receiver (no matter how that was done,) correct the position and then calculate the speed from that than it would have been to correct the speed readings. Also, as we were not dealing with rapid changes in speed or direction (large ships), you could use pretty aggressive smoothing with no real drawbacks.

    Modern ring-laser-gyros and accelerometers are so accurate that they can almost be used alone to navigate by dead-reckoning. In oil and gas applications, devices are incorporated into drilling assemblies that can measure the position of the drill bit within a few inches, after numerous days on the end of several miles of constantly rotating drillpipe under high vibration conditions. The accelerometers in mobile phones are certainly accurate enough to keep an accurate track of your movements (and hence position and speed) through a tunnel or other GPS dead zone.
  20. MarkH67

    MarkH67 Been here awhile

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    Not really any decent pictures, but the basic idea is pretty easy - mount a RAM Mounts ball in a suitable location and then use a RAM arm & phone holder. Generally you would want to add a USB port to plug the phone into.