Upcoming LC4 re-do

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by dirtrider, Aug 25, 2004.

  1. dirtrider

    dirtrider Dusty Adventurer

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    KTM is building and will sell a new version of the LC4 engine in the very near future. The engine will be loosely based off of the RFS engines now currently used in EXC's. This is not a rumor!

    Hopefully the engine will be lighter (a given), have more counterbalancer, and a 6-speed transmission :nod

    Hurry up KTM! Give me a reason to finally trade in my 01 LC4.
    #1
  2. dirtydeeds

    dirtydeeds I'm alive.

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    A 6 speed would be nice. So would a right hand kicker.
    I am not the kind of person who thinks taking alot of weight out of an engine is a good idea however. Honda made a very impressive mill out of the CRF 450 but the engines longevity suffered. I don't think I would care for an LC4 that had a tempermental, albiet powerful, racebred engine with severe maintenance issues (BMW people - have fun with that sentance).
    If they are replacing steel with something stonger and lighter that will be rightious and kick-ass. If they are merely shaving parts down, making thinner bearings and omiting structural parts of the cases then shame, SHAME on them.
    #2
  3. Arch

    Arch Incurable Gearhead

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    I split dirtrider's post into a thread of its own because I feel the news is significant and didn't want it buried under another topic. Hope you don't mind, dirtrider. As for the subject at hand, I agree with dirtydeeds. Gimme a six speed tranny and right hand kick! The former is one of the very few things I truly wish my Adventure R had. That and a bit less vibration, although dialing the carb goes a long way towards addressing that. Anyway...

    Tell us everything you know as it becomes available, dirtrider.

    :thumb
    #3
  4. Mack

    Mack Gone, but never forgotten. RIP, Mack...

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    Hmmmm, Sounds like KTM is finally getting around to rebadging the FE 650 E? (I have been thinking hard about getting one of these.)


    LC4 owners thoughts on the Husaberg FE 650 E.
    http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=71273
    #4
  5. creeper

    creeper Still alive...

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    As I've heard numerious testimonials about 40K+ miles from a reasonably well maintained LC4.
    If one could get maybe 20-25K from a RFS or FE based 600-700 before a top end refreshening... that would be acceptable, unless of course, you were doing one lap around the planet or something.

    What I'd really like to see is a sub 300lb. Adventure single... don't care how they do it, just do it.

    A realistic concern is that KTM may not feel the US market will buy enough DS Adv. versions to make importing them worthwhile, especially if the dollar continues to be too weak to make it profitable in the first place...
    #5
  6. weed099

    weed099 Been here awhile

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    I would not expect them to throw reliability out the window on this model. Remember they still use this engine in the Dakar Rally and probably still will. The 950 did not take over the Rally, I believe a single won it this year. My bet is they are rebuilding it with the intention of it holding up to Rally conditions. The RFS cannot run 7k miles in 2 weeks. I am curius to see what they come up with. It has changed very little over the years. I'm up for performance but without giving upreliability. I have 19k miles on mine. We can only wait and see. Maybe we will see a prototype in Dakar this year. I am only guessing though, the only thing I have heard is that they are redoing it. It BETTER make it to the US.
    #6
  7. Steelhead

    Steelhead It's all good

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    Thanks for the good news Dirtrider.
    I would love to hear any news you have to add to this so as you know so please keep us posted.
    I would love to get a little lighter version of my SXC LC4 even if it did require a little more maintenance. If I could get 20-25K miles out the engine before overhaul that would be fine with me. Would need to have a 6th gear and/or a wide ratio tranny like what's in the Yamaha WR's. Maybe even 2 wheel drive. I heard KTM is working on their own version so maybe it will end up on the future LC4. Who knows.
    #7
  8. Ian640

    Ian640 Been here awhile

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    Any more information on this Dirtrider?

    Will it be an upgraded version of the current LC4 or RFS based?
    #8
  9. dagwood

    dagwood Banned

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    I thought the RFS was based on the Hauseberg? If so the new Lc4 based on the RFS would essentially be a Hauseberg based engine.
    Their is room to loose some fat but under 300 isn't reasonable for any 600cc plus bike thats not racebread. I could see a better mil,l better ergo's, better tranny and posably better suspenders but not sub 300lbs. and... at what cost?
    It would be like a 660 race bike made with lots of unabtainioum and
    ultraunubtainioum.
    What I would like to see in a 600/650cc class KTM would be cassette tranny, lower cg, better ergo's and and less vibes. not that my lc4 vibrates at all. well just alittle. well yeah it shakes the fillings out. but ...yeah my bike don't shake. :lol3
    #9
  10. kirkmoon

    kirkmoon Making up for lost youth

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    Its funny that we all seem to be looking for the same thing and, so far, none of the big boys actually make it.

    A 650 (or so) cc engine that puts out tons of torque and doesn't vibrate too much. A nice six speed transmission. Electric start. It should be reasonably lightweight, but durability should take precedence over weight (within reason). Top suspension (USD forks would be nice.) 4+ gallon gas tank is a must.

    Essentially a KTM 625 SXC with a smoother engine, 6 speed transmission and bigger tank. Or, alternately, a Honda XR650R with electric start and six speed transmission and USD front forks and a bigger tank.

    If they make this a street legal bike and sell it with an option for 17" wheels for hooligan duty, I would think this kind of a bike would fly out of the showroom. Rumors are floating around that both KTM and Honda are going to be making this kind of bike sometime in the not too distant future. Hope so.

    I tried to love my 625 SXC but just couldn't get past the engine vibrations (especially on the street) and I thought the gearbox was just too clunky and the ratios too far apart (compared to the near perfect ratios on the 450EXC). I'm in the process of turning an XR650R into the bike I want, but I don't think I will ever get around to swapping out the forks and I doubt that I will spend the $1200 required for the e-start.

    Come on KTM!!! Just do it!
    #10
  11. markjenn

    markjenn Long timer

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    I belive Kirk is correct - this is the bike that many of us want.

    But I wonder sometime if the way to get to this goal is not a 650cc thumper, but a similar-szie v-twin that essentially can be tune to make the same powerband. A smaller LC8 or a dirt-worthy version of the DL650. I don't think you'd have a bike that much heavier and you'd really solve the vibes problem, giving you a bike that would further steal sales form the big GS.

    In addition to this new LC4 rumor, there have been similar rumors about a smaller LC8.

    - Mark
    #11
  12. wjohnb

    wjohnb Adventurer

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    I have about 23,000km on my 2002 LC4E now, most off pavement and a lot in the tight, muddy and rocky. It really has been a terrific bike especially after the suspension has been stiffened up a little and SXC spark arrester muffler fitted to reduce weight a bit.

    This bike NEARLY does it all but after lots of consideration a bike that is half way between a 525EXC and my LC4E would be terrific.

    Just think, 6 speed box, cush hub rear wheel, 12 litre and 18 litre tank options, smooth counterbalanced engine, electric and kick starter, dry weight of about 270 to 280 lbs, good reliability, RFS EXC type suspension, indicators, full road legal and flat slide FCR MX carb with a big throttle stop to pass the emissions test that could be removed later!

    Sounds like a beefed up EXC with much better seat!

    I'm getting a sweat on just thinking about it!
    #12
  13. Norman Foley

    Norman Foley Devotee of the Husqvarna Supporter

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    I know you guys won't want to hear it... A Husky TE610E already has a nice 6 speed, counter balanced, right kick engine . 17 liter option, cush drive. All street legal. It doesn't hit your target weight, but carries it low. KTM doesn't have any street legal LC4 DS right now, only LC4 Supermoto.
    Norman
    #13
  14. dagwood

    dagwood Banned

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    But Huskys are a nightmare to get parts for...
    Your right of course they are a very well put together package but Damn you can't afford to ride them for fear you'll break something and need a part in say...Six months. Sad... great bike, piss poor company. :nod
    #14
  15. Norman Foley

    Norman Foley Devotee of the Husqvarna Supporter

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    Husky parts aren't the problem people think. I own five of them and I've waited the longest for parts for my daughter's Honda XR 80 and my Suzuki RM 250 (Ice Bike). Maybe you were thinking Husaberg.... Friend waited four plus months for parts. Cool bike... Bad company:nod
    Norman
    #15
  16. dagwood

    dagwood Banned

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    I came fery close to getting the TE610e but the people at the local Husky/KTM shop had nothing but horror stories about getting parts or even stock items for them. And Hausaberg is owned by KTM now so hopefully they will get better at supply. well at least better than they were. KTM sure has gotten better in the last few years. thats for sure.
    I don't know the story but is Hausaberg going to be Absorbed by KTM and disapear or are they staying a seperate entity from them. Shame if they get sqwelched in favor of staying solvent. Yep...Nice bikes. :nod
    #16
  17. Norman Foley

    Norman Foley Devotee of the Husqvarna Supporter

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    This isn't an argument to win, just two sides of the coin. I bought my TE610E from a KTM/Husky dealer, they have been KTM dealer twice as long as Husky. They recommended the Husky over the KTM. Owner had one as his personal ride for four years(sold it to finance some shop renovations, wants it back) and have sold every other one he could get his hands on. He has all the main things you need in stock and 95% fill rate on parts orders. He was a Husaberg dealer and even after KTM took it over he dropped them, though KTM begged him to stay. Any brand it's the dealer who makes the difference.

    Norman
    #17
  18. Steelhead

    Steelhead It's all good

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    I would say you might be correct about a smaller version of an LC8 being an option but after riding my SXC for awhile now I must say I won't buy one if it is any heavier than the current LC4's. If they can get the weight down on the new LC4 or the maintenance/longevity level of the RFS bikes to a more tolerable level that would suite me just fine.
    I'd like to see them mate a 525MXC with my SXC/Adventuer Lite (see Dad's "post your thumpers here" thread, post #524 if my link didn't work) , the result being a bike fast and light enough to ride aggressively offroad yet durable and smooth enough to burn pavement when needed. For me my SXC/Adventure Lite is the best combo I could put together but is still a touch on the heavy side IMO.
    Whatever they come up with I'm sure it won't be anytime very soon so ride what you have and buy what suites you when you wear this one out.
    Maybe Dirtrider can get his KTM R&D buddies to listen in on this input?

    edit: it appears my link didn't work sorry, but if you desire check out the mods on my SXC in Dad's "post your thumpers here" thread post #524.
    #18
  19. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    just curious... what's all that about right kick, left kick? Is it just the ergonomics? is it that important on an electric started bike? I kick my 640 Adventure really easy, and I'm known as a lousy kicker :confused
    #19
  20. Taki

    Taki Waiting for Godot

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    Come on guys! The SXC 625 is sub 300lbs., electric start, trip computer, supermoto wheels bolt right on, 18 liter tank bolts on with a comfort seat, all you need is a mirror and some brakelight switches to be street legal. My only complaint is it is a five speed. The 2004 has a Keihin flat slide and has minimal vibration for a large single. AND IT IS DIRT CHEAP! I compromise for the gearing by using a 48 tooth sprocket in the dirt and a 42 or 45 for dual sporting, cheap alternative to a new gearbox and about 10 minutes to do on the fly. :nod

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    #20