Versys-X 400 speculations thread

Discussion in 'Japanese polycylindered adventure bikes' started by PaD, Oct 26, 2017.

  1. Gustavo

    Gustavo Motociclista Errante

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    But, IIRC, that's a ~900cc twin he is showing off. Not anything in the small/light category. Having said that, a small bump to the displacement of the R3/MT-03 motor would put Yamaha in business. Heck, a T3 based on the MT-03 engine would do that too...

    Gustavo
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  2. 11motos

    11motos Feral Rider

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    Imagine a Tenere 400 like the 700 but lighter and priced to compete with the Versys, CBX, etc...
    That recipe in a simple reliable bike has the potential to be the next KLR for years to come.
    I had very good luck with all my yamahas. engines and bikes have been so reliable that it is hard not to like the brand.
    All japanese brands are pretty much on top in terms of value and versatility for the price.
  3. 11motos

    11motos Feral Rider

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    Yes the picture is of the larger ones but there are also rumors of a new 400 - 500 twin in development right now.
    possibly to counter the Ninja 400 that is dominating the snappy welter weight class otherwise.
    rumors of KTM also working in a small twin engine for a light adv. twin. The one based on the 390 duke is probably the stop gap.
    ....But Please a 170kg,Tenere 400 perhaps? I have plenty of speculation to share! lol
  4. dancingweasel

    dancingweasel Virtual Tourist

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    You've got to wonder what Suzuki are doing in this category. The DRZ400 can't go on forever - and it's not available in Europe. The Wee strom is hardly a small bike, and the less said about the DL250 the better!
    Or have I missed one?
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  5. IndigoSwann

    IndigoSwann Pirate

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    We know KTM is working on bringing to market the next group of bikes based on the soon to be available 490 parallel twin engine. I think Yamaha have to have some ideas to counter the dominance of Kawi's Ninja 400 and the KTM's coming 490.

    Personally I would have loved Suzuki to have produced a DL450 at EICMA int he blue and yellow instead of a 1050. There does not seem to be as much market interest in larger 1 litre+ displacement bikes compared to smaller 300-500cc bikes - or at least that's my take on it.
  6. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    I keep hearing that observation in this thread; that there doesn't seem to be as much [consumer] interest in the larger displacement bikes as the mid displacement bikes these days. Do any of you who have made the comment actually have any data to that effect, or is it just wishful thinking?

    When I look at the bikes that keep getting announced I see lots of new big ones and not so many mid size ones. The manufacturers have their own sales figures and industry data to use in their product development planning. The evidence I see is that the interest - money on the counter - still favors the big bikes, at least in North America. In North America it has always been this way.

    I would love to see any actual data to the contrary.

    ...ken...
  7. motoretro

    motoretro Been here awhile

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    What I'd really like to see Suzuki do is release a De-stroked DR650(58mm), putting it right about 455.53cc, throw in FI, 6 speed trans and a slipper clutch. It's already lighter than the VX300 and pulling off another 7 lbs would be relatively easy and make it a reasonable 360lbs wet. I'd also move to a 19" front, still very good on most trails and fantastic on twisty bits of tarmac. You'd still have a 1/2 hour valve check:clap and proven track record. Price it at $5800 and watch the lines form. Most of the DR's accessories would bolt on and 37-38 HP should be well within reach. I'd buy one tomorrow.
    G.
  8. IndigoSwann

    IndigoSwann Pirate

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    For me it's not wishful thinking just commenting on the trends of feedback I see about ADV bikes on this and other popular bike forums. I did track down a sales report you can buy for the metrics you are talking about but at $1,500 plus for a personal report I declined to purchase! There is no doubt larger bikes are in demand in the US and they are arguable a lot more useful for purpose of what they will be actually used for and the big 4 are all the more happy to accommodate this as they will have higher profit margin per unit etc than a smaller/ cheaper bikes.
  9. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder Been here awhile

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    It's not wishful thinking.

    KTM just released the 390 ADV. Their 390 Duke are very popular.
    Honda's CB500x has a loyal following and Honda updating the 2019's to be more ADV inspired just means Honda believes the market supports it.
    RE, Himalayan 400 has found success as well.

    Also, the old school 650 thumpers are VERY long in the tooth. They're obsolete at this point in the game. Only KTM's 690 is thoroughly modern and KTM don't sell many of them due to their high price as well as its sharp focus of being a powerful, street legal Enduro. Believe it or not, many buyers don't want a $10k+ Enduro for the street with a 37 inch seat height. Yet the 690 Enduro is what the Japanese thumpers would be if Japan, Inc. modernized them. Hence the $10k+ Honda CRF450L! I'll bet Honda sells 3x more CB500x's! I'm willing to bet KTM will sell that many more 390 Adventures versus their 690 Enduro. KTM's is saturating the market! LOL!
  10. RedEX

    RedEX NeverSatisfied

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    Besides my DL650, I also own a 2018 DR650. Therefore I follow the DR650 thread here, as well. First, if I recall, the DR currently retails at ~ $6400. Sure, discounts are available, but it's wishful thinking that a revamped DR will come in at a $5800 retail price.

    Secondly, over on the DR650 thread it's been established that there's just no room in that engine case to make it a 6-speed. Best thing possible is the wide-ratio 5-speed trans being developed by Nova. So it would take a whole new engine design, really. Good thoughts concerning the DR650, but ultimately just another version of unicorn. I'm gonna just stick to the VX-400 as my personal unicorn! :D
  11. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder Been here awhile

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    I have a 2017 DR650. I easily spent another $2k to get it as modern as possible and perform nearly as: LED lights. Upgraded braking. Some wind protection. More power. Stock, it leaves A LOT to be desired. What I really want is a Suzuki version of the KTM 690 Enduro at Suzuki DR650 prices. But yes I agree. It's not possible in the real world. If Suzuki were to make a liquid cooled, 65 rwhp, thumper with high quality suspension and modern braking performance, it would cost as much as a VStrom 650! So why bother? Suzuki sells tons of VStrom 650's so they won't.
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  12. motoretro

    motoretro Been here awhile

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    It would be a DR450, not a revamped 650, hence the moderate price reduction. I feel they could pull it off as a lot of the parts are the same as what's come on DR's for over 20 years ago, it's not a clean sheet redesign. You might be right on the 6 speed although lot of the guys on DR forums(I'm one of them) are typically referring to putting 6 speeds boxes into warmed over DR650's. By reducing the power by approximately 20%, you could possibly shave the width of gears, making room for a extra one. Sure it's possibly a pipe dream, although when I look over what's currently available, it seems viable.
    G.
  13. afordableperformance

    afordableperformance Been here awhile

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    The DR350 had a 6 speed and when the DRZ400 came out it was a 5 speed, same thing Honda did with the XR350/400. The 350 motors were not that large either so a 6 speed should be doable in any of those type of bikes. Before someone spouts off about power increases think about all the big bore kits the current 5 speed transmissions are already handling, I think the DRZ400 had a 500 cc kit available at one time and it did nothing to the transmission. The Honda had a 440 kit, I think they either looked to save money going to the 400 motors and/or just over engineered them a bit. Look at other manufacturers, their cases are tiny yet hold 6 speeds and you don't hear about them breaking gears. It could be done, it comes down to materials, treatments and cost. We all know the Japanese don't like spending money or updating their bikes in this category anyway.

    I think they have made huge steps lately especially this year, but so have other manufactures. I would love to see a V400 come out or anything similar to it, although I would like suspension more like a DRZ or at least KLR on it. So, hopefully someone will come out with a bike closer to what we have all been talking about. If Suzuki was to give us an updated DRZ I am sure it would be more 400 based, or at least I would hope so. Maybe Kawasaki will surprise us with a modern single cylinder as well to replace the KLR, only time will tell. KTM seems to be going in the other direction, making and selling cheaper bikes with the 390, which just isn't quiet dirt enough for me to buy one, now if it was an R or they expand a 490 series with an R, well that's another story all together, so hopefully someone will come out with a bike similar to that, whoever does will probably sell all they can make until another manufacturer catches up with their own version.
  14. dirtdreamer50

    dirtdreamer50 long time rider

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    Been following since the beginning, and the thread is becoming kinds muddy, as of late. Started with placing the 400 twin in the XV, and has divested into singles DS bike Unicorns. Not complaining, as we all want something not made, just wondering what happened to the Twin?

    Had a CB500X last year, and it was so boring and had hundreds of false neutrals, so it had to go. Same with a new Wee. Wasn't a fan of either. May be because when I spent so many years in the woods/trails, it was on a 125-250cc 2 stroke 200-225 lb enduro, modded to be the best it could be, 35-50 years ago. Damn I'm old.

    Guess we will keep on wondering and dreaming until someone comes out with a 400=450cc twin that is actually seriously dirt worthy, even though, I will probably never see more than gravel/dirt roads in the balance of my lifetime.

    Dream on brothers. Hopefully someone out there is following this and other similar threads on the interweb. tp
  15. afordableperformance

    afordableperformance Been here awhile

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    Just a quick note if someone doesn't know, the 490 KTM series is in the works and it is a twin like the V400. It could be years out so Kawasaki could have a big head start if they'd just do it they'd get the sales.
  16. Bullwinkle

    Bullwinkle Enthusiastic curmudgeon Supporter

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    I agree. My XT250 was easily one of the most capable motorcycles I've ever owned, and my experience with Yamaha has always been positive. The only problem with the XT was that it doesn't do +100 kph speeds and long distances as well as the VX300. Regardless, I lust after this (Tenere 250):
    Tenere250.jpg
    Unfortunately, never sold in any part of the world I have easy access to.

    So, yes. I'd love to see Yamaha do a 400 Tenere, but they don't have a developed engine yet, that I'm aware of. For reasons related to insurance and operating costs, my maximum desired size is 400 cc.

    Kawasaki -does- have that engine, and it seems it should be relatively easy to update the VX with it.

    However, the first manufacturer with a 400 cc bike with a comfortable riding position (i.e. upright), with light weight, range and highway/luggage capability will be a strong contender for my money.

    JP
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  17. HighwayChile

    HighwayChile greetings from Wa state

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    great bike class, my wish.... is 400X or the like with top shelf suspension, maybe ktm390 upgraded version to come out. I know it won't happen in my lifetime as Mfr's look at these as "entry level " bikes, they are morons IMO, a KTM 500 is ready to race but a 300-400cc like discussed here is entry level. I saw a 300X 2018 new at $4000 USD, tax extra, looks like K is flushing out old inventory, maybe the 400 will happen , I'd pay more for upgrade suspension
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  18. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    IMHO the number of gears isn't as important as overall ratio and torque flexibility; when I jump from Superdual to X-Country loosing one gear doesn't feel like impediment.

    Shineray still produces that 440 air-cooled Honda mill and SWM makes a bunch of inexpensive bikes with it; some retro some cool scramblers. They made it Euro4 and pull 35hp out of it? something like that. Unfortunately they will never come to US I wouldn't mind getting my hands on Six Days.

    The reason Honda went down to 400cc was because of Japanese licensing; you need big bike license for anything above 400. Even cb500 is short-stroked to 400 for Japanese market. Perhaps they felt that there's no point in producing 400 and 440, just as they felt there's no point to make CRF 300L.

    Somebody needs to go to Japan and make a few BDR routes there and start ADV craze; otherwise Japanese MFG will stay oblivious to the dual sport market.
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  19. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    There are some bikes in EU which would fit your needs like Fantic Caballero Rally or SWM Six Days perhaps your best bet lobbying Canada in adopting Euro5? In US we also have CSC RX4 and hopefully 390 ADV will be here soon as 2021 model.
  20. Wallachian Spikes

    Wallachian Spikes Long timer

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    Off topic but, I'd be highly interested in a P-Twin 900cc standard, similar to the XSR-700. I could see it coming in around 450lbs. curb weight.