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Versys-X 400 speculations thread

Discussion in 'Japanese polycylindered adventure bikes' started by PaD, Oct 26, 2017.

  1. 11motos

    11motos Feral Rider

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    Ok. lets send them a letter, possibly to several addresses to increase the chance someone is going to read it and perhaps show it to someone else.
    I could start asking the dealer for ideas but since the local dealer here sucks big time I am going to ask you guys and see what you think.

    Before we draft the letter we should outline what we want to say.

    - We are many enthusiasts in this and other forums who love the VX-300 and the entire POU.
    - Main thing, keep it as light as possible under 180kg would be ideal.
    - Since the ninja 400 is out we assume a VX-400 would be in the works to be released soon.
    - Most people agree that one or 2 inches more of travel will greatly benefit the versatility of the bike. We don't need USD forks but something
    a tad better with some sort of adjustment even if it is old school and pedestrian yet effective and to keep cost contained.
    - The seat of the VX-300 has not been that comfortable so perhaps address that too.
    - A button to switch the ABS off in either wheel or both.
    - Maintain a competitive price point the working man can afford.


    Ideas?
  2. DavidM1

    DavidM1 Unicorn hunting

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    Ideally we need some competitive renderings showing the 400 in both its wonderful ADV versions - VX and KLX/KLR. What's that studio's name again?
    Dutch idiot and Bt10 like this.
  3. Bt10

    Bt10 Long timer

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    I already posted I did the new purchase survey and asked for the vx4 awhile ago. I just did the few months out survey (in our winter?) and it asked a question like would I buy another Kwak; I answered i would trade up to a vx4, that is all. Just doing my part...
  4. Wallachian Spikes

    Wallachian Spikes Long timer

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    The "OLD" KLX-400 was a DR-Z400. I'm hoping for a "NEW" KLX-400 powered by the Ninja's P-twin. "KLX" also carries name weight with Kawasaki as it is their long standing "dirt worthy" but, not quite a race bike segment. That's the bike that I want & I don't really care what they call it as long as they build it. I'd be super stoked with a modern KLX-450cc - 650cc single but, I'm thinking a serious dual sport effort designed around a small to mid sized P-twin will be exactly what I'm looking for & even better than a new single..

    I don't actually expect Kawasaki to build a KLX-400 but, I'm going to be surprised if they don't eventually build a VX-400 & if they do it right, it will be "good enough" to get my $$$.
  5. SoManyFish

    SoManyFish Been here awhile

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    Kardesign https://kardesign.co.uk/
    DavidM1 likes this.
  6. SoManyFish

    SoManyFish Been here awhile

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    While I appreciate the intent behind the letter, most large companies will not accept unsolicited ideas from third parties. That's because if the company develops a product or service even remotely related to that idea then the company may put itself in a position where it could be sued for royalties. Consequently, large companies have mechanisms to screen correspondence such that ideas from third parties never make it to anyone within the company who is in a position to be influenced by the idea. It sounds a little extreme but no company wants to pay royalties it doesn't need to pay nor does it want the cost (and negative publicity) of litigation it could otherwise avoid. Some companies do accept submissions of protected IP (e.g., patents, industrial designs, etc) held by a third-party but in such cases the company will have an established submission and evaluation procedures with scads of lawyers involved to protect the company from potential litigation.
    RedEX likes this.
  7. Gustavo

    Gustavo Motociclista Errante

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    :imaposer:oscar

    Seriously, I agree with @eakins, I know you know better than that. That YT clip is no more reliable source than any of the ~3300 posts in this thread predicting the appearance of any new Kawasaki bike. :nah

    Gustavo
  8. dirtdreamer50

    dirtdreamer50 long time rider

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    Ain't that the truth. I know I invented the Hula Hoop, but I never got a dime in royalties. :D:lol3
  9. LordMorgan

    LordMorgan Been here awhile

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    Well then why not just add some language to the bottom of the letter "the suggestions in this letter are freely expressed opinions and in no way constitute intellectual property. All signors to this letter agree to hold the company Kawasaki and its subsidiaries harmless with regards to royalties or other compensation for the ideas and concepts offered."

    There, that sounds legal, right?
    Dutch idiot likes this.
  10. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    That might get it past the legal barricades. But that's getting way ahead of ourselves. It's crystal clear to someone who has been participating in this thread since the beginning that there's no agreement - and no possibility of agreement - about what could go into that letter.

    ...ken...
  11. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    Well, upon reflection, I suppose we could agree that it should have a motor, a gas tank, and the wheels should be round.

    ...ken...
    LordMorgan and Bullwinkle like this.
  12. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    I think it has been already copyrighted.. lol
    Ken in Regina likes this.
  13. Krispyk

    Krispyk Adventurer

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    Sounds like you got the run around.
    dirtdreamer50 likes this.
  14. dancingweasel

    dancingweasel Virtual Tourist

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    I think any letter is a waste of time and effort, because _IF_ Kawasaki want to continue the VX3 line, the VX4 is already done, and ready to go. It'll be announced towards the end of the year, ready for the end of 2020, when the 300 motor is no longer allowed under emissions regs. If they're not interested in a VX4, then that'll be that.
    twaldron likes this.
  15. SoManyFish

    SoManyFish Been here awhile

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    You might think that but for many companies it wouldn't make one bit of difference.
  16. LordMorgan

    LordMorgan Been here awhile

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    I want square wheels
    MotoChris521 and cyclopathic like this.
  17. ag_streak

    ag_streak Tiene Ruta Cuarenta? Supporter

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    ^ ^ ^ This.

    Back in the mid 2000's I sent a letter to Yamaha asking how to submit an idea (a brilliant idea, I might add...). They responded and had me sign a paper that said I had ZERO rights and they had ALL rights to the idea, and they were under NO obligation, not even to acknowledge receipt.

    I sent a nice cover letter stating that I ONLY wanted acknowledgement that someone saw and (hopefully) considered the idea, but I got nothing. Zilch.
    Dutch idiot likes this.
  18. 11motos

    11motos Feral Rider

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    I think this was the case in the 50's, 60's and 70's but then little by little things changed.
    Nobody is going to predict if someone is going to decide to sue some other party based on intellectual property claims and ideas but a different thing is if that is going to stick somewhere.

    You see, companies today do not sell just products anymore, but experiences.
    While they hold patents and trademarks, in the modern marketplace of brand culture manufactures are co-owners of their brands along with enthusiasts and loyal customers.
    In fact, those groups and constantly included in events, promoting brands, products and including new ideas and trends for future developments.

    Companies are constantly gathering feedback, surveys, recommendations and now they are launching new ideas based on actual (vs. foretasted) demand and regardless if they
    run a pull (vs push) manufacturing model. A bit of the old spaggetti model is still being used but why they create noise and expectations to assure more sticking than falling before even
    a single product is manufactured. Yamaha T7, rings a bell?

    It used to be where IP and marketing and new product development were completely isolated from each other but in the last 20 years this has drastically changed and IP as well
    as marketing are sharing insight from their data whether this comes from licensed trademark resellers (IP), customer (Sales and marketing) or surveys from new product research.
    Various projects harvest all this data to be used in marketing as well as product improvement and other aspects of the business so departments need this data integrated.
    Some of these initiatives require data science but others are simply sharing facts and dimensions from popular sources. I am very familiar with this because a big part of my job is to help
    manufactures to gather intelligence from data.

    A company that wants to remain competitive cannot afford to operate without these valuable type of integrations and synergies.

    Like for example, here below Harley Davidson, that is very focused in brand culture wants our ideas and suggestions. HD understand how important is to be inclusive in the community
    and the fine line between the brands and trademarks they own and the brand culture and their bests customers life style. That is why some people, when the die they choose to be buried in a
    Harley Davidson coffin or to be carried in a HD motorcade. All the brand can do is watch, assist and be proud. Of course their IP/legal department is going to be looking for
    folks infringing in trademarks like selling unlicensed fake parts but as far as ideas, suggestions and collaborations they would be crazy to leave people out.

    upload_2020-2-27_21-34-28.png
    Dutch idiot likes this.
  19. SoManyFish

    SoManyFish Been here awhile

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    Yes, that's exactly what I am talking about.
  20. SoManyFish

    SoManyFish Been here awhile

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    I wrote "most large companies will not accept unsolicited ideas from third parties." I did not state the none of them will. Some, like HD, as you noted do have a mechanism in place for submission of ideas. I also wrote this but indicated that companies that do accept ideas will only accept protected IP. I did not use any examples. Your HD example is good one which deserves a closer look to see what sort of ideas they accept. From "How do I submit an idea or suggestion to Harley Davidson?" (refer to your screenshot) go "Contact Us Section, and then find "Ideas for Harley-Davidson Motor Company" under which you will find "Idea Submission Instructions". These instructions are written in plain English:

    "If your idea is covered by:

    1. An existing patent or pending patent application, or

    2. Your idea is a technical invention relating to one of our existing products or new products


    Please follow these Idea Submission Instructions:

    Complete an Idea Submission form.

    Once you have completed the form, please mail the form, along with a complete description of your idea, as well as photographs, drawings, specifications and details to:
    Harley-Davidson

    Attn: Idea Submissions

    3700 West Juneau Avenue

    Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208

    Harley-Davidson Motor Company generally does not pay any compensation to anyone for ideas and cannot promise that any compensation will be paid once an idea is submitted.

    Unfortunately, because of the volume of idea submissions we receive, we cannot promise we will use your idea or respond to your submission."

    HD makes it *very* clear that the only ideas it will accept from a third party are protected IP (e.g., patent or patent-pending) or a technical invention which is something that HD can patent ergo while it is not yet protected IP HD can easily turn it into protected IP. So ... no ... HD neither wants nor will accept your crowd-sourced letter describing your unicorn bike. It will go nowhere.
    ag_streak likes this.