Versys-X 400 speculations thread

Discussion in 'Japanese polycylindered adventure bikes' started by PaD, Oct 26, 2017.

  1. RedEX

    RedEX NeverSatisfied

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Oddometer:
    742
    Location:
    S.E. Michigan
    Can't comment on KLR but I've owned both DL650 and DR650, both reliable as an anvil, which is part of the reason I bought them. I won't say the gearbox thing hasn't happened, but the rare instances have been amplified by the internet. And the stator issue has been addressed by Suzuki through recalls. Just over 53,000 miles on the V-Strom now, getting about 55mpg on regular gasoline, never a problem, just normal wear items like tires/chain/brakes etc. Bikes like the KTM 390 Adv haven't been out long enough for any such long-term evaluations, but there are many, many high-mileage Stroms still running around out there. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat; reliability is not an issue, but lighter weight and maybe more ground clearance/suspension travel, are becoming my priorities.
    And let's not loop back to, "Well then you're talking about a DR650." I've already addressed that a DR is a poor choice for 700-800 mile days while travelling to the desired destination. No sir, I need a Unicorn, thank you very much!
    But,,, the newly-reported KTM plans are VERY interesting! I can spend another year on the V-Strom to see what arrives, especially if Kawasaki continues to keep us hanging. Orange Kool-aid is becoming just another very popular store-shelf soda, and I'm getting thirsty!
  2. Jeffo

    Jeffo Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Oddometer:
    734
    Location:
    South West England
    Reliability wise, KTM cant come close to Jap bikes.
  3. IndigoSwann

    IndigoSwann Pirate

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Oddometer:
    313
    Location:
    Easton, PA
    [QUOTE="RedEX, post: 40406769, member: 56423"; reliability is not an issue, but lighter weight and maybe more ground clearance/suspension travel, are becoming my priorities. [/QUOTE]

    With you on that one, had a DL 650 for a few years and as a reliable road bike it was perfect, but too top heavy and not enough wheel travel and suspension as you said. I know in some countries thay have a DL 250 which I believe hasn't got very good reviews, but I always thought if I could get a Suzuki DL450, with 2/3 the power/torque and weight of the 650 it would do me very well. I'd take higher ground clearance etc too but that's too far down the unicorn route.

    I would like to see a capable, light weight adventure/travel bike like: Kawasaki Versys 400, Suzuki DL 450, Yamaha Tenere 400 etc etc. Right now with KTM's plans for a 500cc P-Twin they are quickly appearing to be the only game in town in this segment with the possible exception of Rally Raiding a Honda CB500X or dare I say it a CSC RX4. I still don't get the Japanese mindset on neglecting this range? These bikes would be A2 compliant for Europe, be considered top of the range prestige models in India/SE Asia etc and for those of us in North America playthings to commute on or gravel graze.
    Bt10, RedEX and DavidM1 like this.
  4. DavidM1

    DavidM1 Unicorn hunting

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Oddometer:
    2,067
    Location:
    UK
    ^ I'm totally with you on 400-500cc being the perfect adventure bike size.
    Bt10, RedEX and ScooterJeff like this.
  5. IndigoSwann

    IndigoSwann Pirate

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Oddometer:
    313
    Location:
    Easton, PA
    Yep - bought a Himalayan last year which I love, but I do miss the smoothness of a P-Twin and a bit more uummph to get up to speed on highways and the help pull up hills. I was at least sensible enough to realise I don't need an Enduro bike with 28" of suspension travel - so generally happy, but keeping a very keen eye on this class of bikes..
    RedEX likes this.
  6. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,823
    This is blank statement which isn't a lie but isn't truth. Which bike? Which MFG? What problem? Do you have any information to support your baseless claim? Maybe you mean something like Africa Twin fork problem which Honda refused to own? Or oil ring problem on many kwaks?
    afordableperformance likes this.
  7. DavidM1

    DavidM1 Unicorn hunting

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Oddometer:
    2,067
    Location:
    UK
    Yes, 40hp minimum, I reckon. When I arrive somewhere, I like to ditch the luggage and go hooliganing/sightseeing.
  8. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,823
    You don't have issue with qualifying bikes by displacement? I would personally prefer to qualify bikes by weight/HP/off-roadiness/seat height/maintenance/reliability then just displacement just saying.
  9. ag_streak

    ag_streak Tiene Ruta Cuarenta? Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    Oddometer:
    7,558
    Location:
    Blue Ridge, GA
    His statement is not a baseless claim. Your examples are all specific cherry-picked issues with specific models.

    According to Consumer Reports in 2015, 11,000 people surveyed, KTM didn't even make the top nine:

    1. Yamaha/Star (11 percent failure rate)
    2. Suzuki and Honda (12 percent)
    3. Kawasaki (15 percent)
    4. Victory (17 percent)
    5. Harley-Davidson (26 percent)
    6. Triumph (29 percent)
    7. Ducati (33 percent)
    8. BMW (40 percent)
    9. Can-Am (42 percent)
    And in 2020, the CR results (in order from best) were:

    Yamaha
    Honda
    Kawasaki
    Suzuki
    Harley
    Triumph
    Indian
    KTM

    At least they made the list...
    rideforzen, Jeffo and RedEX like this.
  10. IndigoSwann

    IndigoSwann Pirate

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Oddometer:
    313
    Location:
    Easton, PA
    Can't speak for Dave but I read that as implying the 400-500cc displacement category has a power to weight ratio better suited for intended use over other displacements, i.e. enough power to do highway and carry luggage comfortably (unlike the 250's) but not too heavy to be a burden when you go offroad like the 650's and above. That is of course factoring in cost - KTM 790 Adventure bikes look great but those of us who don't or can't spend $11k+ on these bikes a smaller displacement motorcycle would fit into our budgets better.
    rideforzen, RedEX and DavidM1 like this.
  11. ag_streak

    ag_streak Tiene Ruta Cuarenta? Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    Oddometer:
    7,558
    Location:
    Blue Ridge, GA
    Personally, I would buy a KTM, but your assertions that they are more reliable than Japanese bikes are simply wrong...
    rideforzen likes this.
  12. DavidM1

    DavidM1 Unicorn hunting

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Oddometer:
    2,067
    Location:
    UK
    Yes, that's it.
  13. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,823
    Yes internet amplifies issues KTM included. I'll give you example on recent brake recall; bad KTM, right? Turned out the recall was from Brembo and affected all other mfg Triumph, BMW, etc who were using Brembo pads. Ironically pads were porous and could corrode and delaminate if exposed to salty water.. they were manufactured in Japan by japanese company on Brembo order.

    As for Suzuki the issue with stator was widespread across whole line of bikes, ATV, etc. Interesting that they decided to omit some year Stroms and on ATVs and sport bikes they decided to replace RR as it was cheaper. Issue was there for decades and they ignored it. Had a friend who suffered similar startor burnout on Katana.. never got any help.

    And for DR being a poor choice many DR travelers would disagree; 700mi days is US thing only even in EU it is very unlikely. I had one 700 miler on the way from Stelvio to Bulgaria even with mostly staying on stradas it was still hard.. ended up crashing for a night in Beograd in Serbia. I'll tell you that my Superdual was alot smoother than my vstrom under those conditions, so number of cylinders isn't an issue
    Dutch idiot likes this.
  14. IndigoSwann

    IndigoSwann Pirate

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Oddometer:
    313
    Location:
    Easton, PA
    Wait, wait, wait! I have not ridden a Superdual so no direct experience, you saying it was smoother for long hauls on roads than a DL650? 0_o
    RedEX likes this.
  15. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,823
    This is not the assertion. You need to look at specific model instead of "well the mfg B isn't reliable, so all B bikes are crap". Or "it's made in country A so it can't be reliable, but this made in country J then it is more reliable".

    Here is a couple things which skew statistics:
    - new models are less reliable, so MFG with more older models will fare better.
    - japanese are concervative in design so if you don't push envelope you would have fewer issues. I don't think H2 is more reliable than 1290 Duke but maybe it is.
    - KTM makes more dirt bikes and dirt bikes break more
    - orange bag crowd tends to push more. If you want to see japanese bikes fail check Gabe's Torture Magazine YouTube channel; he buys used japanese bikes, fixes them up and races until they fail. Failure rate? 100%.
  16. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,823
    Yes and this was completely stock SD after break in and a couple oil changes vs all tricks in a book Wee2. Considerably less handlebar vibe bother at cruising speed. Now 652cc Rotax in BMW singles is living hell in comparison though some say it is much smoother than KLR. If it is I don't know how people ride 'em
    RedEX likes this.
  17. Janus9

    Janus9 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Oddometer:
    637
    There is zero doubt that KTM doesn’t build as reliable as the Japanese manufactures (not yet), but KTM builds a lot of bikes you just can’t get anywhere else.

    Hopefully Yamaha follows suit again like they did the T7 vs 790 when it comes to the 500cc ADV segment.
    Jeffo likes this.
  18. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,823
    I talked to lady next door this morning; she had zero doubt covid doesn't exist and thought president made it up to keep people from socializing.

    Problem with T7 Yamaha over-hyped and underdelivered on that one.. and how many years did it take? Can you actually walk into dealership and sit on one less so take it for a test ride. I have tried; people putting deposits and taking delivery blind.

    And I don't think they are committed if Yamaha builds R3 based bike it would take them more time than for kwak to deliver VX4.. just saying.
    RedEX and Bullwinkle like this.
  19. mantan

    mantan Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Oddometer:
    721
    Location:
    Silly-Con Valley
    That's BS as far as the KTM Adv and street bikes are concerned. 1x90 and most likely 790 too. I speak from personal experience as well as keeping up with the KTM forums. My 2014 1190 Adv has 52k trouble free miles.

    EXC and off road bikes are obviously diff but if is ridiculous to lump all KTM models in 1 reliability bucket.
    RedEX and cyclopathic like this.
  20. DavidM1

    DavidM1 Unicorn hunting

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Oddometer:
    2,067
    Location:
    UK
    What's all this with 1190s? I once borrowed my girlfriend's CB 125 and I thought it was fine. Stay tuned to the unicorn zone, please.
    RedEX likes this.