Versys-X 400 speculations thread

Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by PaD, Oct 26, 2017.

  1. The_Precious_Juice

    The_Precious_Juice The Virginian

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    Oddometer:
    8,224
    Location:
    University of Montana
    Too bad it's not 10,000 tops.
    But, the torque looks good.

    Versys 650 got a retuned engine, maybe the X 400 will.

    Image 30lbs of toque 2,000 rpm lower instead of 28 @8,000rpm.
    #21
    DavidM1 and pennswoodsed like this.
  2. DavidM1

    DavidM1 Unicorn hunting

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,376
    Location:
    UK
    I think the torque curve will be fairly flat, maybe 24 @4,000rpm.
    #22
  3. PaD

    PaD Serial beginner

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2015
    Oddometer:
    585
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    I think you are a bit optimistic.
    I don’t think Kawasaki will put a lot of effort into increasing max torque and moving peak to a lower rpm like 6000.
    The work done on the 296cc engine for use in VX300 was as I see it primarily to make it comply with Euro 4.
    The torque curve is a bit flatter but max torque value is not higher for vx300 vs ninja300.
    Fairly flat torque curve for the 400, yes I think so too, but my guess is not more than 21ftlb @4000 :-)
    But if I’m wrong - good:D
    #23
    fishheadAZ likes this.
  4. ex_MGB

    ex_MGB Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
    Oddometer:
    927
    Seems putting the new 250cc engine in an updated X-300 is more in keeping with the spirit of the original.
    #24
    The_Precious_Juice likes this.
  5. Skooter

    Skooter moto-slowpoke

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Oddometer:
    517
    Location:
    AZ
    Need to look at all this from a marketing viewpoint. For much of the buying public in the US, the word Ninja means any fast sporty motorcycle regardless of manufacturer. As in, "he passed me on one of those ninja bikes, must have been doing a hundred miles an hour!" Kawasaki knows this. That's why they want their Ninja to be a 400 and will keep their Versys a 300. It's public perception of the word Ninja. I don't know the statistics and not sure they're available to the general public. But I'd venture a guess that Versys buyers tend to be better informed about the specifics of the bike they want/need, while "ninja bikes" can attract greater numbers of less informed buyers who aren't necessarily motorcycle geeks. They just want a fast sporty bike and 400 is faster than 300.
    #25
    RedEX, Dutch idiot and Pomodoro like this.
  6. ex_MGB

    ex_MGB Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
    Oddometer:
    927
    I agree with this assessment. At my local dealership they get two main types of buyers, cruisers and sportbikes. Adv style bikes are an anomaly. And, truth be told, the X-300 is an anomaly within an anomaly among adv riders.:D Was there ever a Versys X-300 speculation thread about placing the Ninja 300 engine in an adv frame with nearly identical ergonomics to the new Africa Twin? Beyond that, even in actuality not many see the virtue of a screaming high rpm engine in this configuration, yet, therein lies much of the essence of it's versatility especially mixed use day riding.

    At this point, I don't know much about the new Ninja 250, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a thumper. The Ninja parallel twin 250 was always a rarity. I loved my CBR250R and I miss somewhat it's better mpg. In my slow day rides to the beach in the summer it consistently got 82 mpg (measured by actual usage) and had all the power and torque I needed but the ergonomics and rough ride on those tar and chip roads was no longer tolerable, especially after experiencing my new Africa TwIn. Having said that, I vastly prefer the X-300 parallel twin engine over the WeeBee's thumper.

    Kawasaki wouldn't put a 250cc thumper in the X-300 for the U.S., but if it's a parallel twin and they managed to shave 20 lbs off the bike, I'd consider that over a heavier than current 400cc version, not that we'll see a choice. If the new X-400 weighs one ounce more than the X-300 (not to mention lower redline and lower mpg), I'll stick with the X-300 and accept the fact most find it too "edgy". Heck, I miss the weight of my CBR250R.
    #26
  7. DavidM1

    DavidM1 Unicorn hunting

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,376
    Location:
    UK
    I know nothing about marketing but I reckon this motor should be in at least 4 variants - Ninja, Retro Commuter, Versys, KLR.
    #27
  8. Cruz

    Cruz Lost but laughing.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2008
    Oddometer:
    10,210
    Location:
    Northside Brisbane, Qld Australia

    Have you ridden the 310 BMW a fair bit?
    #28
  9. The_Precious_Juice

    The_Precious_Juice The Virginian

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    Oddometer:
    8,224
    Location:
    University of Montana

    Sound logic. If people keep buying the X 300 this year they may produce for 2019.

    They may need to allocate a bunch of 400 motors for the Sport Bikes, for the next 24 months.
    Same goes with the 250. That is going to sell a bunch RTW!


    Producing 3 engines in the 250, 300, and 400 variety is kind of odd.
    They may take all of the left over 300 engines and put them in the Versys for 2018 and 19. They do not need to detuned the engine, just switch about Sprockets and such. Very cheap to do.

    Hell, Honda has been putting a 670cc engine from 2013 just in USA NCX bikes.
    In 2014, after two years, they created the 745cc.
    "You Never Can Tell", also known as "C'est La Vie"
    #29
  10. ex_MGB

    ex_MGB Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
    Oddometer:
    927
    No, I just sat on one last winter at the IMS as well as the X-300. They both had very similar ergonomics and I liked them both. The X-300 came out first and that's what I bought. My first bike was a Kawi Eliminator and I have heard over the years on forums nothing but good things about the little Ninja engine. As well, it's a loooong way to the closest BMW dealership and I bought the X-300 from the same dealership as my Africa Twin.

    The BMW was a very good looking bike as well. I see the G310R is now available, wonder when the GS310 goes on sale in the U.S.?
    #30
  11. The_Precious_Juice

    The_Precious_Juice The Virginian

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    Oddometer:
    8,224
    Location:
    University of Montana
    Wow, almost a week from the last post!
    Time is flying.

    For some reason, BMW does not have the price down in the USA for the GS.

    Maybe they are waiting to see what KTM delivers with the 390 ADV?
    The price was out in Canada months ago. WTF?

    I guess I should just be happy the 310GS is coming state side. So many good small displacement bikes do not come here.

    __
    hopefully the release of the 400 Ninja is just around the corner and the moto jouralist will give us some feedback.

    When you consider the Ninja is well below 400lbs, the ADV trim will make the CB500X Rally Raid stage III a fat turd. :bert

    But to be far, the 471cc is not a performance engine and should last a very long time.
    #31
  12. dmason

    dmason goofball

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,248
    Location:
    NorthCentral IN
    Didn’t I read that the new 400 mill actually weighs less than the 300 it replaces? Who the hell wouldn’t want more power and less weight in their Wee Vee???

    *Confirmed. According to Cycle World, the new unit weighs two pounds less than the old.
    #32
    The_Precious_Juice likes this.
  13. Oyabun

    Oyabun 親分

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
    Oddometer:
    397
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    CB500x? Not a thumpery but otherwise spot-on.
    48hp
    31,7 lbf torque
    471cc
    4.6gallon fuel capacity and 63mpg avg (as per fuelly) -> 290 mile range
    430lbs curb weight
    #33
  14. rideforzen

    rideforzen Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Oddometer:
    832
    Location:
    N.W. Oregon
    Yamaha offers a 321cc. KTM has a 390. Both of these bikes compete with the Ninja at 296ccc. Ninja wants it's title back in the small sport bike world.

    The Versys X doesn't have much competition in it's segment. For what it is.
    #34
  15. The_Precious_Juice

    The_Precious_Juice The Virginian

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    Oddometer:
    8,224
    Location:
    University of Montana
    Agreed, If the cost analysis looks good, Kawi should keep making the X 300 for 2019 too.

    Maybe in 2020, the frame can share the 250 and 400, just like how the Honda Rebel shares the 286 and 471.
    #35
  16. 11motos

    11motos Feral Rider

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2017
    Oddometer:
    763
    Location:
    On the Road
    Hi.
    Thanks for opening this discussion.

    IMO, if they made a small adv 400 or 500 I would be interested for commuting and weekend getaway.
    I think the Versys 300x offers that but might fall a tad short for some.

    These are the opportunities for kawa:

    A- Use the versys-x frame. It is fine the way it is.
    B- Use the new 400 engine. A bit more torque that while is not 100% needed will increase the versatility of the bike.
    C- Shave some serious weight. No need for exotic materials, simply cut or mill what is not needed.
    D- Improve the suspension and brakes including a bit of tuning settings and a switch to turn off the ABS.
    E- Keep the competitive price.

    IMO this segment can be educated in the alternative experience for the urban and commuter users. These are in fact an awesome commuter option
    for folks who also like the weekend get away in comfort and most likely will enjoy finding a remote camping sight or go hunting or fishing.
    The type of rider who doesn't need nor want top performance on a bike and likes reliability, comfort with an affordable budget.
    Subaru sold an LLBean version. The car was basically the same, but they sold the experience.
    That is what marketing is failing to address with some new customers and in this case this will make a great beginners bike too.

    If kawa doesn't do it, sooner or later, someone will. A 4 stroke 250 doesn't make much sense to me no matter what use one has.

    There is another thread where someone made a beautiful upgrade to a Honda CRF 250 L by using a CB 500 X twin engine
    and the final weight of the new bike is 345lbs (156.5kg) vs. the 320lbs (147kg) of the original that is amazing.

    So we know it can be done, lighter, reliable and with the perfect amount of power and beautiful too.

    thoughts?
    #36
  17. The_Precious_Juice

    The_Precious_Juice The Virginian

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    Oddometer:
    8,224
    Location:
    University of Montana

    The interesting thing is Kawi has the 39hp 250 for the small segment, however this 400 model looks to be all alone.
    It's like a whole new segment. We need to see the reviews.
    #37
  18. 11motos

    11motos Feral Rider

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2017
    Oddometer:
    763
    Location:
    On the Road
    I do believe people are realizing the 250 is not needed. In reality it was never needed. I feel the whole 250 it has been pushed more by fashion and tradition
    than any realistic need.

    IMO it will not take long for others to react, possibly Europeans, and then Kawa will have to react vs. leading the way.

    Perhaps they would be concerned to tap on their own KLR base but sooner or later, as good as the KLRs and DRs are, they are going to loose to a smaller twin
    that can do more with less. That is why in order to also tap in the DR base they need to loose some serious weight. Either that or a modernized thumper could
    also take the place but it has to be affordable. It seems KTM could also compete on that price bracket since this does not need high end competition brakes
    or suspensions.
    #38
  19. 11motos

    11motos Feral Rider

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2017
    Oddometer:
    763
    Location:
    On the Road
    what model is that 250 with the 39hp?
    #39
  20. The_Precious_Juice

    The_Precious_Juice The Virginian

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    Oddometer:
    8,224
    Location:
    University of Montana
    Kawi is bringing the 250 Ninja Back.

    The spec reads 39 hp.






    Very similar to the 400 commercial, but we get some specs on the bike.
    #40
    11motos likes this.