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Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by PaD, Oct 26, 2017.
Thanks. 39hp?? Has to be a racing engine. Where was this published?
If the price is $5,499-$5,799, what can compare to the Ninja 400?
Oh ok I saw it. That is for the Indian market only. All reved up to 12,500 rpm. Too tight. Not good.
I put this on the Ninja 400 thread but I think it also belongs here, just for reference. Versys 390x ??? lol
Just in case is curious about how much different the 400 is, I calculated the projected numbers based on the gear ratio and the data we have so far.
I put 3 bands at top torque RPM, Top power RPM, and top power RPM+500rpm, that will give an idea of top speeds in ideal conditions.
Again this are just paper projections not to be confused with actual dyno comps.
The bike will be a slight edge on torque and I don't think the beginners will care about top speed so the light bike + fun factor remains.
I keep reading from motorcycle reviews this is no longer a beginners bike yet there is no one single indication why and who established that artificial criteria.
If the bike brakes perform then it will be a safer bike all around, specially for beginners.
Perhaps they should call it the Ninja 390 to put some folks at ease.
A drz400s put out 32-35 hp. Open it up and rejet it gets you 39-40hp. The bike is plenty fast on back roads and you won't run it wide open on our gravel roads. It's funny how much hp people think they need. You won't run the Versys all out either. Espesially on gravel or logging roads. Just on longer up hill sections or when wanting to feel like a gp racer.
Great bike the DRZ. Yes, horse power is a bit arbitrary and imo is more important how that horse power is delivered.
The DR 650 is another great bike that is and old design but simple to upgrade with a couple of carb jets and suspension parts will deliver 42hp with lots of torque.
The twin is geared more towards the highway whereas these thumpers are more true 50/50 including single track and with 5 gears only will reduce that versatility.
Of course one can open the DRZ or DR up and put a wide ratio kit but then that is going to be more for the specialized guys who know exactly what they are looking for.
I think a thumper with a carburator is an excellent 'worldarounder' since these bikes are so popular one will find parts and service anywhere on the planet.
But if a twin for the masses can be made light enough then it can open more options for exploration not discarding some single track to a reasonable level.
Once you get above 35 and into 40 to 45 horseys that is plenty and the idea is to have a wider torque curve for a more predictable and controllable application of traction very
important on the dirt.
That bit of extra torque and ideally some reasonable weight and suspension is what makes the difference to increase the versatility of the bike.
I think the kawa enthusiasts and new riders/buyers like the higher rpm red line and when looking at the 400 one can see there is a nice increase on torque but w/o
sacrificing too much on the high rpm buzz for those who like to play. That is good news for a versys specially for the off-road duty but also in the tight twisties
in mountain roads.
None of the newer parallel twins lack torque. For their size. But they lack the vibration of a single. Espesially at higher rpm.
I have owned klr650 and no matter what the specs say it was not the bike for me. Sorry but heavy ,slow and vibrations at hwy speeds. Had a xt500 and xr600. Ya torque is nice up until you've lost traction. And it's not in a 350 lb dirt bike. I think my KTM had around 80 ft.lbs. Great for the street.
I think I would prefer the Ninja 250 over the 400. The 286cc from Honda is my current Sport bike engine. I live in curvy conditions and lack the skills to do 80mph in the turns.
I would need a DL650 to go along with her and dirt bike for the complete stable.
I would prefer the 400 engine in a beast ADV BIKE. 19" or 21".
It's actually a real engine?
The KLR is a good bike, nobody is going to argue with that, but it is overdue for an upgrade and there are a couple of things that are a bit problematic.
- A new KLR needs to loose 80 to 100lbs. For example the DR650 that is also an old design can loose 25lbs very easily, same as the jetting upgrade and when done you have more power and torque than the KLR + 100lbs lighter.
The DR feels also smoother on the highway although cannot compare to a modern twin for long distance.
- The KLR consumes too much oil on the highway. I am not sure if anyone has fixed this and while it is not a huge thing for some, it is another thing to worry about.
Honda has also a very serious contender that is the CB 500x. All they need to do to make it even better for offroad and put some spoke wheels 19" in the front, harder suspensions with some minor tuning
and loose some weight but w/o loosing that appeal it has for all day and highway use. The engine is smooth and very reliable. 471cc /47hp very refined and more than plenty for many.
Why not use the Ninja 500 motor in the Versys ? 50 rwhp and 31 ft lbs of torque. Good luck selling any 650s.
The cb500x is rated at 47 hp and the Versys 300X is 39 hp and it has 40 pounds less weight . And spoked wheels.
You got that right. A 650 / 70hp is going to scare some less experienced or new riders but easily solvable with a ridding mode selector.
But seriously, 400, 500, 650... who cares? The biggest challenge that is the main problem I see is that nobody is making a lighter bike
with a low center of gravity. A lighter bike is more friendly, will stop faster, will tackle harder trails given some reasonable suspensions too.
This is the biggest problem. Of course is going to be heavier than a enduro, you want it to be heavier for the road but why not put
a limit to 350-375lbs (160-170kg)? If an enthusiast can do it in his garage why companies cannot do it?
Many weight loss projects can loose a lot of weight from a bike w/o investing much and w/o using exotic materials by simply loosing
some waste and milling a few parts.
Is not the horse power but how the power is delivered and the torque. Again not a huge thing but for many people the torque, even that small amount is important.
Also folks that are more serious about adventure and dirt they replace the Honda with spokes + other muffler and get into a simple diet.
The CB can be found for around $4K with low miles or even some new ones 2014, 2015 models on the shop floor.
So folks who are going to upgrade them they do that and end up with a better bike specially for long adventures and travel.
After all is a proven bike and engine very popular all over the world.
The versys has the potential to do the same and IMO the ninja 400 engine is only going to help. I was thinking to get a 300 for a new commuter and quick getaway but I am going
to hold to see if a 400 shows up. But I am thinking it is hard to come with excuses not to jump on a honda for that duty if a deeply discounted one is found or a low miles used
that will help with the cost of some upgrades for offroad.
This is not so great off-road ridding and a lot more can be done to the bike as needed, but just to give an idea....
Yes many will pass on a 300 with 39 hp and 20ft lbs of liniar torque from 4k to 9k. Because they need more off-road. And spinning is fun.
Just keep em under 400 lbs please with excellent wind protection and super light controls.
Remember the KLE 500 that we didn't see in the USA?
to me that was the right bike with the wrong weight.
Close in price to the KLR some folks could drop 30lbs from it easily.
That engine gave 45hp @ 8500rpm and 41nm @ 6500rpm with a nice wide curve.
So what about a Versys the same way with a lighter more modern engine and injection and then put
light yet effective fairing and windscreen and loose all the other bulk including making a lighter muffler?
Lets say 45hp, 41nm, 380lbs some minor tuning for suspension and decent brakes? The seats on these could be made
very confy. I would make it to consolidate the KLR enthisiats needs with the new comers who are going look
at a lighter bike with confy seat and low center of gravity yet something can tackle the off road a lot better than the KLR,
as well as the highway.
The trend we are seeing are that the modern bikes are much heavier than in the past.
We have a few bikes that act as the benchmark, but they are 80s bikes.
We will never see Japan make a 650cc thumper that is under 370lbs wet.
They build for Mass volume sales RTW.
These smaller engines allow a low COG, coupled with a 90-180lbs of less weight (current ADV BIKES)for when they do fall over, and that is where things look good.
The Ninja 400 might be high speed/low drag so a new heavy frame may be needed for the X.
399lbs-410lbs is fine by me. Still 35- 45lbs lighter than a CB500X RR III, and no labor.
Who needs a unicorn?
Because a 20 year old engine isn’t going to pass emissions standards anywhere?
Ninja 650 engine is smaller than Ninja 500 engine, blue is 650.
Good point. More power usually means more weight, not just engine but rest of bike to handle the added power. OTOH, Kawasaki might have planned the X-300 with the upgrade engine in mind so it's all just a matter of a simple engine swap.
That would be very nice indeed as price should stay darn near the same. Can't beat free hp.
There are markets - massive markets - in Asia where the 250 is absolutely needed for a variety of legal (licensing/insurance) reasons.