Versys-X 400 speculations thread

Discussion in 'Japanese polycylindered adventure bikes' started by PaD, Oct 26, 2017.

  1. ridewestKTM

    ridewestKTM Long timer

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    well - different page - different numbers. I found 2 different sets of gearbox numbers. Both were "SWM superdual". But as Cyclopathic indicated one is slightly more narrow via 5th and 6th; 5th at .957 and 6th at .88 giving a T:B of 2.62/.88 = 2.98. Interesting. I stand corrected.
  2. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    Naw. Then we'd have to stay at least a little closer to topic. This is more fun. :photog

    ...ken...
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  3. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    Here's the Superdual ratios.. this is SM supermoto tranny not TE. BTW mechanically the same engine is in AJP PR7 and CCM.

    As for weight dieting I have a set chinese akro cans waiting to be put on; between exhaust, lithium battery, heat shield you can drop 20-30lbs.. also get rid of passenger pegs and center stand if you wanna to get it even lighter. Sealing rims and getting rid of tubes would save 6lbs give or take.

    Thumpers have the reputation for vibes but Italyhusky single is pretty smooth, SD was noticeably smoother than V-strom it replaced. That engine while not as smooth as CRF250L is much smoother than one in G650x I have now, much less handlebar vibration at highway speeds.

    Modern street thumpers (KTM, Honda) have secondary balance shaft which takes care of vibration, YMMV. Screenshot_2021-11-25-23-56-59.jpg
  4. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    How about 550 KLR or XL750L TransAlp?
  5. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    ? random comment.

    This thread is about re-hashing the unicorn over and over or why the 300x is acceptable enough.

    The 550 KLR thread was floated but dropped, I didn't keep flogging a dead horse.

    The Transalp seems legit at this point.

    I don't keep randomly writing about unicorns that never materialize but rather what could be legit machines. If they don't time to move on.

    At a certain point this thread is just another WR250R thread fest. It's not about a bike, while being in the bike section of ADV.

    It's a bs-fest that has a painful repeat button like that odd friend that just repeats himself. If it was agressive at all it would be punted to the basement.

    I'll check back in a year.
    Maybe it will be renamed: random multi-bike discussion thread? That would be accurate
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  6. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    So you don't like proposed names for this thread, eh?

    As for the actual XL750L TransAlp thread yeah it's legit, Honda had shown a prototype at EICMA and it is a nice looking ADV scooter. 100% legit with running boards and spoke wheels.
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  7. vt700guy

    vt700guy Been here awhile

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    I can't figure out why you make it a point to stop by and bust everyone's balls that are hopeful for this bike to be made. Just unwatch the thread and move along.
  8. ridewestKTM

    ridewestKTM Long timer

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    I want to get back to the X-400 speculations theme. Why? It can make a difference. Some comments get ignored for sure (like my "KTM screwed up 5th" comments), but more than once, that I know of, manufacturers do take note. In the 80s I was involved with the filming of a moto-tourism video funded by the state of Idaho. A little ma and pop filming company contracted with the state to make this vid. They contacted my trail-bike club (a statewide org) to help them film. I was included in a small group representing 1 of about 6 sub-groups within the state. We met up with the vid company, provided bikes and went filming. I had a ball! The film was produced and published. A year or two later some legal mombo-jumbo came to the club about rights and such. Meant nothing to me, but what it was; the Honda corp, bought all rights and all footage for their use in product development of trail machines. Cool!
    So that's why. And for me this speculation is incredibly fun.
    Back to the theme. I want to discuss the transmission options of a 400 Versys. Anybody interested?
    Lastly: Cyclopathic: I plotted out the transmission numbers for the TE-630 to compare with the SWM superdual. Your observations (IMO) are spot on. (I know you know that already but I just wanted to :thumbup) The SWM is good but the TE is better.
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  9. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    Someone (maybe you? I'm too lazy to scroll back and I have a memory like a sieve these days...) mentioned a ways back that the transmission ratios in the Versys-X were the same as the Z/Ninja. I find it hard to believe.

    First, I confess that I've never ridden the Z/Ninja. But mid-size sportbikes were my favorites before I got my first ADV.

    Long story short, the riding characteristics of my Versys-X are much closer to my two (past) XT250's than my three (past) GPz550's. That is, tight short ratio at the bottom and wider higher pattern at the top. Makes for more manageable plonking in the dirtier stuff but still allows reasonable speed on the smooth stuff.

    My sportbikes were more "evenly" geared so that there wasn't that long gap between the low slow plonking gear(s) and the speeding ticket gears.

    Perhaps I misunderstood what was said earlier. If so, I apologize.

    That's all just a long way of saying that if I was building my own small/midsize ADV bike and adding as much offroad capability as you are, I would be looking for a transmission with characteristics more like the XT250/Versys-X experience. If that makes sense...

    ...ken...
  10. ridewestKTM

    ridewestKTM Long timer

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    The 300s (ninja and Versys) are the same, and the 400s (ninja and Z) are the same. The 300s' are wider.
    My hypothesis is: at the time of the 300 ninja which was developed from 250 twin the idea was a all duty sport bike poser with little competition, and without much thought for racing needs. The R3 and the RC390 cleaned it's clock on the track and Kawasaki wanted to regain the lead on the track (I have read that the 400s development was for euro compliant) so while redesigning they went for a more track worthy gearbox. (as I said a hypothesis)
    Best as I know.
    As I have shown in previous plot the 300s' first-second gear space is wide. I know that the feel matches the plots. And to your point about Versys being better (anyway) than the Z - absolutely.
  11. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    Because I'm just another brick in the wall here...the antagonist & realist.

    As for that specific reply to Cyclo, that's me and him.
    I know him personally and he's stayed at my house before.
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  12. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    You would hope Kawi listens to end user wouldn't you?

    Spoiler alert...they don't.

    If they did, they would have built an ADV bike around the Versys 650 years ago...so close & yet...

    Look at the recent front page post about the CEO speaking at EICMA.
    They are going in the direction of mobility and electric.

    The 300X was built as covert project by engineering enthusiast as no doubt corporate would not have green lighted it on the top line.
    At this point it's anyone's guess how long it lingers on. It may be just a 1 off anomaly type of model and that's it.

    Kawi hasn't built the Versys 650X ADV in the last 10+ years when bigger is better and that's why this whole time I've said I don't see a 400X happening either.
    Simple as that.

    They offer a lovely KLR650 if you're into the bigger DS/ADV thing, otherwise Kawi is a performance street company at their core or starter bikes.
    The KLR did not go 500/550 twin as I thought it may, so here we are.
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  13. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    Well since this is the new random multi-bike discussion thread on ADV:

    Why are you conflating the release of the 350 ADV scooter with the idea that a XL750L Transalp is coming? :scratch
    Pure contrarian does not equate to much if it's not based on anything.

    Both machines have been reported that they were in the future pipeline...the Transalp has not popped out of the oven yet.
  14. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    Yeah Superdual has a SM630 ratios and IMO x3 isn't enough for a bike which you want to be able to have full use on trails and freeways. Moreover lock to lock isn't great either, so it won't be at home in tight switchbacks. And Euro4 fuelling is rough below 2600-2700 RPM (this is usually the spot ECU goes into open loop mode). There's a guy who did gear swap on AJP, but it isn't trivial task even if there's space for the gears (they didn't charge cases) you have to replace more than just 2 sets of gears

    I can't tell you what to do, but this is my plan:
    - switch -1t front sprocket (15 -> 14)
    - replace exhausts
    - flash ECU with performance map
    - lighten up bike.
    - grind stops.

    Even if you can't or not willing to pull engine out, split cases, machine them and put in new gears, IMO getting bike lighter and more trackable at lower RPM will make it more operator-friendly, or at least that's what I am hoping for.

    Also check how tight valves are on your 400, sometimes taking care of tight valve all it takes to make bike run better at low RPM. Not sure how 400 is but 300 needed a couple adjustments for valves to settle
  15. ridewestKTM

    ridewestKTM Long timer

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    Well Mr. eakins, I don't want to see you wasting your time here. Feel free to visit other threads.
  16. ridewestKTM

    ridewestKTM Long timer

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    Thanks: You even answered question I hadn't asked. The SWM is my son's bike and he likes it greatly. Biggest complaint is weight distribution. Biggest like is engine and trans.
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  17. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    Naw, every thread needs its resident curmudgeon. Truth.

    At least @eakins presents sound reasons for his opinions; agree or not.

    ...ken...
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  18. twaldron

    twaldron Dudeman

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    From the guy who “knows a guy” that confirmed 100% that a twin KLR 400 was imminent, as well as the same guy who “knows a guy” that BMW had an imminent ADV version of the GS310 with spoked wheels, yada yada yada blowhard yada Whom purports he doesn’t believe in the possibility of a Vx400 yet can’t help himself not to monitor the thread like a scorned prom date. What seedy alley do you get your “inside” info from? :photog

    Realist. Speculation though, right? :D
  19. RedEX

    RedEX NeverSatisfied

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    Um, he knows his way around the forum quite well enough, but I actually invited him to "stop by" over here. He does make valid points, year after year. And I'm not sure what thread it was now, but I too posted statements from the Kawasaki CEO, at EICMA. Based on that interview, any hopes for significant development in ADV bikes by Kawasaki, are dashed. This thread has been entertaining for what, 5 years now? But as far as I can see, the next lightweight twin-cylinder ADV unicorn will not come from Kawasaki, period.
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  20. Ken in Regina

    Ken in Regina Long timer Supporter

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    I'm not seriously brand loyal. I'll happily buy a Versys-X 400 equivalent from Honda, Suzuki or Yamaha if they build one.

    ...ken...
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