water-methanol injection

Discussion in '2 smokers' started by 550SENTA, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    You will need a castor based 2T if you want to run alcohol fuel. If you dont want to use alcohol fuel, you will have to redesign the motor to allow it to work on pump fuel. 2T motors in very high states of tune, are not really practical if you want to use pump fuel, and reliability also tends to be greatly reduced, so these are things that are really only practical for serious race use, using the proper fuel, and rebuilds very frequently.
    #21
  2. 550SENTA

    550SENTA Banned

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  3. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    If you have 16:1 compression, your motor will blow apart pretty quickly no matter what fuel you are using, unless its only being used for drag racing, running for a few seconds only each run.
    #23
  4. 550SENTA

    550SENTA Banned

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  5. Reino

    Reino Been here awhile

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    Petrol does not pressure ignite. Only diesel does.honda experimented with petrol auto ignition, the bike was called the exp and was built for the dakar, the way that system works is that it purposely traps burnt exhaust gasses and mixes it with the new charge.

    Detonation is caused by a pressure and heat wave that the end gasses cannot resist, the pressure wave and heat wave is caused by the initial spark event not by pressure ignition.

    250 4t motocross bikes run 14:1 (static compression) and they still use a spark plug.Remember in a 2t the compression ratio rises as you reach pipe resonance frequency so 16:1 may become 19:1 or even 20:1.

    Even those 4T motocross bikes that run 14:1 are on the limit, a bit higher and detonation occurs and that detonation occurs at about 10:1 dynamic compression ratio.

    I know you probably dont want to hear it, because you have invested a lot of money and love :raabia in this bike. But i recon you should look at a big bore sleeve or kit or something and reducing compression to make the desired power while running at normal pump fuel.

    Also as i understand it, when you increase compression you increase low down torque but top end suffers and viceversa.

    What bike is it?
    #25
  6. 550SENTA

    550SENTA Banned

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  7. RFVC600R

    RFVC600R No sand here :'(

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    This thread is entertaining :D
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  8. Reino

    Reino Been here awhile

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    The 250's produce max power at about 11 000rpm and rev to 13 000 to 14 000 rpm. The super single 250 class bikes (250 4t single cylinder road racing) rev to 16 000.

    The 450 mx bikes rev to 11 000 to 12 000 rpm and can be made to rev to 13 000 and 14 000 rpm

    They use hollow stainless valves filled with sodium or titanium valves and titanium valve springs.

    Petrol does not pressure ignite, its a fact. It is to do with the properties of the chemicals the fuel is made of. All the liquid chemical fuel that usually burns with an open flame does not pressure ignite. diesel can only be set alight by pressure or an directed flame like a blow torch.

    Hp is a function of torque and rpm so to make high hp numbers you have to rev or make a lot of torque. on a 4t to make more torque at low rpm's you ether have to go turbo, supercharger or nitro and that is no feasible on an light weight mx bike so the opt to rev the thing to produce the wanted amount of power.

    A 2t an the other end does not need to rev because its expansion chamber acts like a turbo producing a torque boost witch interns producers more hp at lower rpm's.
    #28
  9. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    Sure is..................I wonder why the link to a video of a Simson moped though?
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  10. Ever Onward

    Ever Onward Older,Wiser, Smarter

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    Yep,.....in a 2 stroke trainwreck kinda way ! :lol3 :dhorse
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  11. 550SENTA

    550SENTA Banned

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  12. Reino

    Reino Been here awhile

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    There was no detonation or ping in that video. Only petrol and its alternatives detonate.
    #32
  13. 550SENTA

    550SENTA Banned

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  14. Reino

    Reino Been here awhile

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    I am well versed in how all aspects of a 2stroke work, i have done research for about 6 years on them. And i know that expansion chambers are made for a target rpm range.

    Expansion chamber has the same function ans an turbo they even display the same characteristics. A turbo is meant to increase the volumetric efficiency above 100% at a certain rpm range. The same as a expansion chamber.

    An turbo engine can be tuned for high rpm, but as a consequence have little down low torque same as an expansion chamber.

    The big difference between the two is that the expansion chamber manipulates sound waves and a turbo uses the energy in the exhaust gasses to compress the intake portion of the engine.

    The use different methods, but there function and characteristics are the same.

    Those mega bomb headers on 4T motocross bike's is basically an expansion chamber for 4T.


    [​IMG]

    Top fuel dragster ^^^

    With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.

    Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.
    #34
  15. Reino

    Reino Been here awhile

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  16. Ever Onward

    Ever Onward Older,Wiser, Smarter

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    If I coulda harnessed the energy of two engineering students argueing theory, I Know I coulda given Spencer a run for his money in 1981 !! :rofl
    #36
  17. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    wonder if you could post up some pics of your bike being raced?
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  18. Reino

    Reino Been here awhile

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    haha. When starting engineering

    [​IMG]

    When you get your degree.

    [​IMG]
    #38
  19. 550SENTA

    550SENTA Banned

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    #39
  20. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    If its not being raced than why the 16:1 compression, and the need for alcohol fuels? Post up some pics please.................your posts have been entertaining, and it would be nice the see your bike.
    #40