1. Hey everyone, We’re going to start a weekly email to surface interesting threads in the forums. No worries, you can easily unsubscribe if you don’t find it interesting. If you’re like me, it’s nice to have someone willing to poke around a big community like ours and find the most interesting stuff. Saves time and I hate missing something great. It worked really well when we had someone discovering the best photos for the home page rotation back in the day. And if you have something fascinating to post, maybe this email does everyone some good by getting it noticed. Let us know what you think when you get it. Your feedback will make it better as we go (thread). Thanks! Baldy & rudy1220
    Dismiss Notice

Wet Weather Pants rating required

Discussion in 'Australia' started by Kiwirich, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. GodSilla

    GodSilla I did that.

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,975
    Location:
    GodSowncountry Australia

    :fpalm Have you ever actually read the GoreTex guarantee? Did you know it comes in different grades, including a motorcycle-specific grade manufactured specifically to withstand extended highway speeds (and FULLY guaranteed)?

    Your blanket statement "Rubberised yellow work pants are the ONLY thing that will keep you dry in extended rain." seems to exclude all the stuff I've used over the years that wasn't rubber pants and still worked. Lots of it. Sure, I've had stuff that leaked from new (who hasn't :dunno), and stuff that was "temporarily" waterproof, but I still also have garments over 25 years old that have NEVER let in a drop, and they aren't rubber.

    I also dispute your claim that your "rubber" pants are over 40 years old - rubber perishes mate, they should actually be dust by now. I suspect they are actually plastic.
    #21
    diabolik37 likes this.
  2. farqhuar

    farqhuar Human guinea pig

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,321
    Location:
    Islands in the sun, Oztralia
    For me the real test of waterproof clothing is spending 4-6 hours a day riding in monsoonal Indonesia, day in - day out for over a month. The water comes down in sheets and gets in through any, and every crevice.

    Australian weather conditions just don't compare (other than maybe the odd day of riding in FNQ).

    I agree, GORETEX may keep you dry for an hour or two in typical heavy rain but it will leak from the seams and be damp inside, even if your other layers of clothing prevent that dampness reaching your skin. Let's be honest, any material that can "breathe", by definition can never be truly waterproof.

    As for my yellow rain suit (yes, I have a matching jacket), it is 39 years old (not over 40 :-)), has welded seams and I honestly don't give a stuff what the material is that it is made of - it is colloquially known as a "rubber suit", that's good enough for me. :lol2

    When I wear it, it makes me look like a nerd :lol3 , and will make you sweat like a dog on a hot day, but keeps me bone dry under the worst rain conditions - something no other plasticised (or synthetic) clothing has achieved.
    #22
  3. Redback

    Redback Average aussie bloke

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Oddometer:
    596
    Location:
    Helensburgh NSW Australia
    This may explain the term rubber rain gear;

    The first modern waterproof raincoat was created following the patent by Scottish chemist Charles Macintosh in 1824 of new tarpaulin fabric, described by him as "India rubber cloth," and made by sandwiching a core of rubber softened by naptha in two pieces of fabric.

    I know the pants you're referring to as up until about a year or so ago I had the same pants from my days on the railways (Port Kembla Rail Yards) only reason I threw them out was they didn't fit anymore they were still OK even after being more than 40yrs old(circa 1973) I was 18 when they were issued to me, pants and Jacket, dull yellow and heavy but worked very well but a buggar to work in.
    #23
    GodSilla likes this.
  4. GodSilla

    GodSilla I did that.

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,975
    Location:
    GodSowncountry Australia
    It's interesting that you claim your "rubber" stuff makes you sweat like a dog, but in the same sentence you reckon you are bone-dry?:scratch And that plastic doesn't work?:dunnoPlastic lets water through? :dunno

    Too many furphies and contradictions. I'm glad your placcies work well and have lasted, that's always a good thing, but your arguments simply don't bear up to scrutiny.
    #24
  5. abhibeckert

    abhibeckert Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,957
    Location:
    Cairns, Australia
    GoreTex is designed resist rain drops but it will allow some water to pass through which is necessary to keep your sweat from accumulating and making you wet.

    Allowing sweat to get out means it’s not waterproof, it’s only water resistant. It also tends to perform “worse” when there is no airflow

    Some Gore-Tex fabrics are rated to be less breathable and more water resistant, but these are only really useful in very cold conditions where you’re not going to sweat.

    I find the best way to stay comfortable on a long wet ride is to wear breathable gear that dries out quickly in the wind. GoreTex does the opposite.

    If however, you’re trying to stay *warm* in cold wet conditions, then Gore-Tex is fantastic. But it doesn’t really get tha cold in Toowoomba unless you’re riding at night.
    #25
  6. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Oddometer:
    30,967
    Location:
    "Swednavia" - f5ederation of Scandwegia
    These are similar to the side zip "overpants" that dunc posted.

    [​IMG]

    full length side zip let's you whip 'em on (or off) like a Chippendales stripper... quick as.

    [​IMG]

    I have a pair from Helly Hansen - Danish sailing apparell Company - (not those pictured) and they have 10 years of good service on them.

    Might be a touch warm (in Aussie summer) but durable, dry and practical/comfortable (they fit over my Alpinestar Tech 10 MX boots/CTi kneebraces in motocross pants - no worries).

    To find a good quality pair - may not be cheap... but they do pack/stow in a small day-size back pack easily. As for for the yellow plastic style council worker overpants... less expensive, can be a pain to pull on over boots etc. (unless they are well oversized) in which case I usually find (in real offroad/enduro wet/mud conditions) that you slip and slide around in the things anyway. If just slabbing it, and you have time to stop/pull over (shelter) to change into them... well okay.

    But for quick and easy change access and comfort - the full side zip pants - like dunc mentioned - is the go, I think. :thumbup
    #26
  7. GodSilla

    GodSilla I did that.

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,975
    Location:
    GodSowncountry Australia
    "I find the best way to stay comfortable on a long wet ride is to wear breathable gear that dries out quickly in the wind. GoreTex does the opposite."
    I don't understand this statement at all. You just basically said goretex is breathable in varying degrees. Then are you also saying it won't dry out in the wind? :scratch

    I agree there about the goretex in warm to hot weather, it's fairly uncomfortable to useless unless it has huge vents. To be fair I could say the same about just about all waterproof riding gear though. Most of it is made with thoughts of rain in cooler conditions. Goretex relies on a temperature difference to work properly, so it's not appropriate for hot and humid conditions, just like a slick tyre isn't for motocross use.

    It's the moronic claim "goretex is only good for a light shower" that annoys me, it's just utter crap. And the other style one, "nothing works except for my <insert name of item here>, everything else is shit". It's just nonsense and deserves to be called out as such. The O.P. can make his own mind up.

    Personally I am a happy owner of goretex riding gear, and I am always dry and in thermal comfort when I wear them. Plenty others share this experience. If the stuff was as piss-weak as suggested no-one would buy it, especially at the premium price it attracts. The buying public give lie to the "goretex doesn't work" claims by voting with their wallets for decades now. Knock-offs are never as good.
    #27
    Redback likes this.
  8. dunc

    dunc Hodophile - Coddiwompler

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Oddometer:
    3,162
    Location:
    NSW--OZ
    i just liked the ease of getting them on and off over your boots and whatever your wearing
    made sure they were big enough to do that
    dont have to sit down and try to gey into the normal style ones

    good service as the 1st ones purchased were way to big so just returned and changed over with no probs
    #28
  9. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    8,853
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains Oz
    My Goretex Klim Traverse pants, not overpants BTW, have now done about 100,000 kms in all sorts of conditions, horrendous at times even, and kept me dry and comfortable throughout.
    #29
    GodSilla, 59DEN and bigredroosta like this.
  10. farqhuar

    farqhuar Human guinea pig

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,321
    Location:
    Islands in the sun, Oztralia
    C'mon Tom. Your reading comprehension is better than that. I deliberately chose the words "sweat like a dog on a hot day" to emphasise the fact that the material doesn't breath. I think it's pretty bloody obvious that "bone dry" refers to the lack of water ingress (and lack of sweat on a cool day :rofl).

    With respect to the word "plastic", which you and I both know refers to something that is shapeable, or mouldable, the problem is that when you say plastic pants most people think of either moulded vinyl, or vinyl thread..

    Moulded vinyl is TOTALLY WATERPROOF, but thin, and easily tearable- in my experience, unless you are VERY careful, the second or third time you wear them you stretch/tear them and they let water in through the split(s).

    Vinyl threaded pants, by comparison, are showerproof for up to an hour or so but then the water enters between the threads (just like GORETEX, only sooner :lol3).

    The challenge of being on a bike is that unlike just standing in the rain, you are also experiencing a wind blast (of up to an additional 110kmh) forcing the rain in, seeking out, and exploiting the tiniest weakness in your rain gear and then expanding and stretching that weakness.
    #30
    Redback likes this.
  11. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Oddometer:
    30,967
    Location:
    "Swednavia" - f5ederation of Scandwegia
    What this thread need's is a good ol' fashioned "blue water" test... :D :deal

    [​IMG]

    ... and someone to help Gods' get some of the knots out of his... :rofl

    C'mon guy's this is s'posed to be a fun place to help each other out and muck about for a bit... eh? :1drink
    #31
    diabolik37, numbat and fayeslane like this.
  12. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Where do I get a pie

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Oddometer:
    6,734
    Location:
    Brisbane Northside, OZ
    All the Held gear is very well designed, functional, and great quality.
    #32
  13. Dr AT

    Dr AT Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Oddometer:
    4,691
    Location:
    maffra, vic
    Nb hely hansen changed ownership a few years back, so don't expect a danishmade product any longer
    #33
    troy safari carpente likes this.
  14. Redback

    Redback Average aussie bloke

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Oddometer:
    596
    Location:
    Helensburgh NSW Australia
    I'm not a big fan of rain gear for the simple reason they are a pain in the arse to put on, but on occasion they are essential but I usually only wear the pants unless the rain is constant and I'm wearing a leather jacket then I'll put a thin over jacket on, the really compact type that will fit in a jacket pocket, otherwise it's pants only.

    I have a Shark Nordic ADV Jacket with the waterproof liner, I'm hoping it will do the job if it rains on a trip and if I do get a bit wet I don't really mind that much.

    One thing that's for bloody certain, I will not be paying anywhere near the money for some of the gear that's been mentioned here:loco:-)
    #34
  15. GodSilla

    GodSilla I did that.

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,975
    Location:
    GodSowncountry Australia
    "but then the water enters between the threads (just like GORETEX, only sooner :lol3)."

    Feel free to keep on embarrassing yourself. I've got better things to do than waste time on someone else's ignorance.
    #35
  16. farqhuar

    farqhuar Human guinea pig

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,321
    Location:
    Islands in the sun, Oztralia
    The only embarrassment here is from those who can't get their head around the fact that it is impossible for a fabric that is "breathable", to also simultaneously be totally "waterproof".
    #36
  17. GodSilla

    GodSilla I did that.

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Oddometer:
    10,975
    Location:
    GodSowncountry Australia
    The more you guys type, the more it says about your IQ. I'm done with arguing with idiots.
    #37
  18. GordyOZ

    GordyOZ Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Oddometer:
    722
    Location:
    Culcairn, Greater Hume Shire............
    #38
  19. Dee Cee

    Dee Cee Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Oddometer:
    516
    Location:
    Newlyn. Victoria.
    Some interesting comments on here.

    About 8 years ago I picked up a second hand Tiger Angel elements jacket which is great to wear and I use it all the time, but it does leak in spots. I have now treated it twice in seven years and it probably wasn't treated that well if at all by the previous owner, these garments need to be looked after to hold their water proof values. I have been out in rain all day and it has been a little disappointing in keeping me dry compared to my old Rivet Rainlock gear which is basically an insulated raincoat. The Rivet gear does not breath at all and is bloody uncomfortable when the sun comes out with some warmth in it. But the Elements gear is bloody great to ride in in all conditions except sweltering heat and anything that keeps out the weather like these things do will be hot in these conditions. Element jackets have no vents, I just roll up the sleeves a little and unzip the front and let some air through, makes a huge difference, I can see why others put vents in, they really would work well.

    So on the back of this I bought some tailor made Element trousers with the full zip up the side to complement my jacket for a cool $500, ouch. They have proven in the long run to be great to wear, breathable when the sun comes out, they look like they would handle a fall well enough but they are now leaking like a sieve around my nuts and butt area, these trousers haven't had a huge amount of use at all. I contacted Steve at Tiger Angel to discuss the leaking crutch and sent the trousers down for him to look at, end result is Goretex can fail in areas like the crutch and butt due to a lot of rubbing and stretching on the seat and getting on and off the bike ( especially high ADV types) Steve will try and fix them for me but the wash up of all this and Steve agreed with me is that I am better off riding in my std Alpinestar trousers and pulling on waterproof over pants when I need to for a lot less money and they roll up smaller then the element trousers anyway. Pity this wasn't mentioned when I looked into buying them in the first place. The trousers look fine from the outside but all this failure is happening in the lamination of the fabric layers that make up the Gortex system and could happen again at any time given the right conditions. So this in my eyes makes the waterproofness (is there such a word) of these trousers fragile to say the least.

    So now I have bought myself a North Face jacket on special from Annconda to pull over my Gortex jacket and I will try out the repaired trousers and if no good I will get some high zip pull overs for the btm half, I see a couple of good ones in this thread and go from there.

    I am right back where I started in the early seventies with water proof gear, back then it was pull over council wet weather gear from the disposals except now the fabrics are lighter, stronger and fit better. My two bobs worth.:D
    #39
    GodSilla likes this.
  20. ozcruiser

    ozcruiser Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2017
    Oddometer:
    565
    Location:
    Coffs Harbour
    Iv'e been getting drowned for 45 years riding motorcycles the best stuff to date has been waxed cotton but it needs conditioning every couple years to work well. I'm hoping to finely to be stepping into the none greasy 21 century with my first four season gear Heine Gericke jacket and Spidi pants wish me luck.
    #40
    GodSilla likes this.