I will admit to not being much of a Harley fan, but most of that stems from my ex father in law who worked at the York plant. The stuff he told me, which I'm SURE happens with all brands, makes me shake my head in disgust. Add to that the power play they did to Harrisburg and blackmailed PA into all kinds of tax incentives or they were pulling stakes and fleeing to Kentucky I think it was. More corporate foul play then anything about their bikes. As for the "culture" thing, yeah that irks me, but I knew plenty of real riders that didn't dress the pirate nonsense and just rode. Would I ever buy one? Never. But damn, I was at the dealer one day with one of the motor guys picking up one of the department bikes and saw a CVO Road Glide Ultra. :eek1 That was one GOD DAMN AWESOME looking motorcycle.