What is the major hurdle in the acceptance of electric vehicles: range, recharging time, price?

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by voltsxamps, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    Electric motorcycles and scooters are quick, require very little maintenance, and (give a hoot) don't pollute. So what is the major hurdle in the acceptance of electric vehicles: range, recharging time, price? Or something else entirely, like the lack of sound & vibration, or no gears to shift?

    The author of the article link below believes the major hurdle in the acceptance of electric vehicles isn't range or any of the others, but recharging time.

    http://motorbikewriter.com/electric-motorcycles-to-recharge-in-seconds/

    Electric motorcycles like Zero have acceptable range, and KTM's electrics can take as little as 50 minutes to recharge on 220v, but there are still long charging times of several hours for most electrics which would leave motorists stranded. Let's say that this is your personal top reason for not getting an EV. What if you could buy an electric motorcycle that could be recharged in minutes, rather than hours? With all off its other benefits and shortcomings, would that alone be enough for you to buy one?

    I've already purchased one, and like all current electrics, it has its shortcomings: one must stay ever conscious of range, where to plug in, and for how long. Price has also been a concern but has been steadily coming down.

    Major auto and bike manufacturers continue to devote a large amount of R&D to create EV's that we want to ride and drive. That said, does it matter to you?

    A few pro’s to electrics:
    1. Reduces dependence on fossil fuels vs getting energy from solar, stored in batteries, used to power our homes, electronics, and vehicles
    2. Less-polluting as long as the source of electricity is based on solar/wind/geothermal/wave current/etc. and the batteries themselves continue to be recycled as they currently are by Tesla, Toyota, etc.
    3. Torque, acceleration, silent operation, simplicity of mechanics, near-zero maintenance, no clutch/shifting, and so on

    And a few cons:

    1. ICE offers vastly more choices, gas is relatively inexpensive, has a global network of refueling stations that take minutes to top off, and range is less of a concern.
    2. Prices for EV's still average more than their gas counterparts, though companies like Tesla's gigafactories were built to bring down the costliest part of EV's: lithium
    3. Like oil, there is a limited supply of lithium and cobalt ore on our planet to sustain demand.

    For me, all of the other things are subjectives; ie, the sound of combustion, the thrill of simultaneously meshing gears with your hand, feet, eyes, and ears, vibration, etc. Companies like HD are making crossroads into bringing some of the nuances of ICE into their el-motos, a signature sound for example, but time will tell if these are enough to satisfy current ICE riders and for manufacturers to learn what matters most to future buyers.
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  2. HelloPitty

    HelloPitty Motorbike Enthusiast

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    I've looked at the Zero bikes, once at a dealer and a couple of times online, I like them.
    I think what holds me back is the thought that next year, they'll improve the riding distance, that gets me stuck in a loop of "next year" syndrome.
    #2
  3. Dabears

    Dabears Long Timer

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    I have to agree with HelloPitty on this as my number one. Watching the discussions on this site people note how much better and cheaper the options are than just a couple years ago. I waited until the iPhone 5 before dumping my Blackberry. Wish I had done the same when PCs first came out- spent crazy money to get into technology that was improving daily.

    #2 recharge time
    #3 availability of recharge locations. Don't laugh- I'm sitting in a campsite on Lake Superior as I type this. Our SYM HD200 is parked next to my RV. We went for a ride yesterday and I needed fuel. Towns are minimal here in the UP. I found a general store/bait shop with 2 gas pumps and filled up. Not sure asking to borrow an outlet is a suitable request here. I think the US is a long way from having ubiquitous charge facilities that would allow electric transport to match convenience of ICE vehicles. No Teslas up here!
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  4. tastroman

    tastroman Long timer

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    For me it's range and price. I'd own one if I could get 150 miles from one for around 5 grand.
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  5. DaBinChe

    DaBinChe Long timer

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    Once my current big bike reaches 50k miles, currently 1k, I'll might just get an electric as my next. By then 2020+ electric bikes should go down in price and increase in range enough to justify it. I love the torque!
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  6. EvrythingAwesom

    EvrythingAwesom Long timer

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    Great questions!

    I ride electric scooters and an e-Grom. Owned a 4-wheeled highway-capable EV previously, but lack of a garage with an outlet required me to sell it.

    The main benefit of riding "electric" is explained by this unfortunate inmate's "don't know why I crashed post":
    http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/first-crash-50-years-riding-15-000-miles-this-year.1172348/
    How so? When I lived in a city with health warnings due to excessive PM2.5 in the air, pedestrians would stop me from bicycling, because the health officer's public warning said that exerting yourself, when there is a "smog warning", could cause instant heart attacks.

    I have 3 friends with COPD who can't ride gasser motorcycles. Two have Harley's gathering dust in the garage, and must ride electric scooters. Well, at least, they aren't walking around with oxygen tanks, yet.

    Motorcycles, unless they have a catalytic converter, will surely shorten your life. Remember that most cars now have an air filter for the passenger section, so the cagers' lungs are less-affected by exhaust fumes. I have a theory, based on counting the photos of crashed bikes with "straight pipes", that smog/noise is a reason why scooters are much safer than motorcycles, statistically.

    Whenever I ride an electric bike, scooter, or car, I can smell everything; every block smells different; I can smell some restaurants from 50 yards away. On my eGrom recently, I had to back off riding behind a gasser 2-stroke Vespa due to choking fumes from the Vespa rider.

    One possible reason, for those who have read the most-detailed reports on Flint, Michigan's water scandal, and the Health Ranger's water queality test reports, is that lead and flouride have reduced people's willpower and have become "less human", so to speak, by the shrinkage of the pineal gland, apparently. Have read books by MD's on this subject, as well as the Popular Mechanics article long time ago. A Detroit newspaper article told about the reasearch on prison population having much more heavy metals in their blood than the general public, traced back to the heavy metal blob at the bottom of the Detoit River, from the 20's or 30's, iirc. This news article was around 1994-1997.

    Spiritually, as Stuart Wilde said, don't worry about "cost" or "money". Life is too short. Just avoiding one crash from breathing PM2.5 is worth 10 electric motorcycles, to me. Seen lots of Zero electric motorcycles, but the size doesn't appeal to me. I like the Egrom, and it's "cuteness" (looks like a moped, to some security guards) allows me to ride and park in places that would get a Zero motorcyclist probably kicked out, e.g. on a bike rack in front of a cutltural center; or, plugged in right outside a Chinese restaurant.

    BTW, one benefit of living healthy, filtering my air and drinking water, is having a younger body. Let your imagination run wild here, you won't be far off.

    From the UK study, I'll repeat this: There's 40 million particles per breath on a gas car on the middle lane of a 4-lane road. There's only 7 million particles per breath for a pedestrian by the same road.

    China is making 40 million electric scooters/motorcycles a year now. Their recent hub motor and trapezoidal waveform controllers will soon replace sprockets and chains, because this new-tech is 2X to 4X more efficient (owned a brushed-electric motor type,, chain-driven, 6000-watt electric moto once.)

    My 2003-2007 (now gone) 1500-watt brushed-motor electric scooters burned out from riding uphill and downhill, short distances. Today, my LIFEPO4 new-tech hub-motored Egrom can do those same hills along with gasser cars, as well as mountain roads.

    So, the short answer, imo, is that people don't love themselves enough, or they'd be wanting to live longer and happier. Is that from the usual cause, an unhappy childhood?
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  7. RRocket

    RRocket Been here awhile

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    I'm an enthusiast. And nothing...NOTHING sounds like a finely tuned ICE.

    It's just something an EV will never be able to replicate and for me...that probably means no EV in my lifetime.

    Beyond that? Cost, range, recharging...all 3.
    #7
  8. JerryH

    JerryH To Each Their Own Supporter

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    I have to agree. The reason I am a car, motorcycle, and scooter enthusiast is because of the ICE. That's what attracted me to them in the first place. Can you imagine a Harley with an electric engine? But even as pure transportation non hobby non enthusiast vehicles, they come up way too short on everything. They cost too much, they have a very limited range, and they take too long to recharge. The limited range thing is probably the main issue. On my way up to Portland from Phoenix, I saw 3 or 4 Teslas on the freeway. There is no way I could have made that trip in 24 hours in a Tesla. My transportation car might as well be electric, it is super smooth, you can't hear the engine, it has no character, it's the Mercury clone of the Ford Crown Vic. 2006 model. But I paid $6500 for it used, with 67,000 miles on it, in near new condition, and it will hit 30 mpg on a flat road. And of course it has unlimited range. It averages 500 miles per tank. So there are both emotional reasons and practical reasons why I would not consider an electric vehicle.
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  9. davenowherejones

    davenowherejones short old guy

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    I rode one of the Harley Livewire electric demo bikes. I like the bike but the range is too short for me and the $100,000 prototype price was a bit steep.
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  10. flei

    flei cycletherapist

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    My only issue is the lack of range. I live in a rural area and ride for fun only. Typical ride I want to do is 200-300 miles. E-bikes aren't quite there yet. But getting closer....
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  11. PeterW

    PeterW Long timer

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    Range and travel time. Well and cost. An electric bike could do my commute, but given the cost I'm better off with a petrol bike doing everyhing.

    Travel time, I can (and have) ridden 1200k's in a day on my current bike, I simply couldn't on an electric bike because the recharge times would cut into the riding time massively.
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  12. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer Supporter

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    All three for me. Lack of range, long recharge time and lack of recharging facilities make it totally unsuitable for anything other than commuting or short rides from home. If the price comes down I'll consider an electric scooter for commuting. I expect to get an electric bike someday but probably not very soon.

    Oh yeah, nobody sells these thing anywhere near me so no dealer support could be an issue.
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  13. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    I agree that 2 strokers are awful polluters and it's clear why you're a proponent for EV's, so in contrast, what would you say is/are the major hurdle(s) in the acceptance of electric vehicles?
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  14. RCmoto

    RCmoto Long timer

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    once 1 in every X cars are elec., then bikes will follow - question is what # is X ?
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  15. aguim

    aguim Been here awhile

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    Evrything is right, RRocket is right, voltsxamps is right, JerryH can't be wrong... I think I should go with
    the philosopher... but wait, no way I'm gonna trade the Forza for that CRAP !

    I'd rather have a horse, or a walk?

    So I'm one of those getting stupider evry minute...boy, probably too late to retropedal,
    anyway!
    #15
  16. JerryH

    JerryH To Each Their Own Supporter

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    I did post before that I would like to have an electric bicycle so I could ride along a local bike path that is on a canal bank for many miles. Lot's of fun in the late afternoon/evening. But a bike with the range I would need cost $3000, and there is no way I could justify that just to be able to ride along one bike path.
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  17. catneck

    catneck Rabid Motorcyclist

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    I rode a Brammo, live in it's birthplace after all.
    It was the sport model, power was excellent, range was fine for commuter (charge at work on company dime-whats not to like about that?).
    But the cost.
    $17k for a second (or 12th) bike made no sense to me.
    It cant be the only bike. Too limited in range for that.
    As well as being subsidised to the point that I feel like I am forced into paying for someone else to ride alternative/EV, even if I don't choose to.
    When the price naturally comes down, I am in.
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  18. aguim

    aguim Been here awhile

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    With Samsung batteries exploding all over the place, Teslas catching fire in parking lots, zillions of
    ephemerical small batteries thrown away every hour of the day, progressists keep blowing air about
    future 'miracle' batteries. I'd bet my last shirt this will never happen (cold fusion, anybody?). Our
    best invention was the ICE, but it looks like the fun won't last THAT long, isn't it...

    Hell, we were not even supposed to ride horses!

    My neighbour says '50 years fr'm now, everybody walkin' , I mean runnin'. Scary stuff from the
    peasant...
    #18
  19. MiniBike

    MiniBike Casual Observer

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    Range and Recharge for me. While an electric vehicle would serve me well 70% of the time, just knowing that my options could be limited by the machine and not my desire is a dealbreaker. I don't commute anymore, but even when I did, any of my commuter cars or bikes could take me the long, long way home if the urge struck. And it regularly did, if only to clear my head from a stressful day.

    I am seeing a lot more golf cart style EVs in our local beachside and retirement communities. I could easily adapt to that (if not for that pesky 45 mph road to get there).
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  20. JerryH

    JerryH To Each Their Own Supporter

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    People still do ride horses for fun, and on many AZ farms they are also ridden for work, instead of riding an ATV. ICE powered cehicles will be around lang after I'm gone, which is all I really care about. I am also 99.9% sure electric vehicles will not become practical during my lifetime. Or even 100 years later. Right now everybody seems to think that ICE or electric (or a hybrid) are the only choices. I believe there are a number of other technologies available that could work far better. And despite what Elon Musk says, I have not given up on the hydrogen fuel cell.
    #20
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