What's the REAL story behind KTM saying no to Long Way Round?

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by zolo, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. Xtremjeepn

    Xtremjeepn Motorhead!

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    Perfect example. What do you think the "real cost" of those toolboxes is to SnapOn? It's certainly not $10k. The same is true of the real cost of the motorcycles to KTM, BMW, etc.
    #81
  2. charlie264

    charlie264 Long timer

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    About 20% less than manufacturing costs.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    #82
  3. gweaver

    gweaver NorCal is Best Cal! Supporter

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    As someone mentioned earlier, I think that company size and available funding for a project like LWR, LWD has quite a bit to do with it. BMW, being much larger, can probably afford to kick in for bikes, riding gear and whatever else they provided. KTM was, and still is, a very small manufacturer. No idea what BMW put out for bike, spares and a tech, but I would imagine it was quite a bit more than KTM (thought they) could afford. Sure, hindsight being 20/20 and all, but I would think KTM wasn't willing to risk a major amount of capital for what they thought (based on one man's recommendation) was doomed to fail.
    Too bad.

    G
    #83
  4. pebble35

    pebble35 Long timer

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    Yeah - you NEED that amount of tools to get a BMW round the world !

    I suspect the bottom line for KTM was 'would it be worth it ?'. At the time the factory was working pretty much at 100% capacity. Don't forget KTM are tiny compared to BMW. If they had used KTM instead of BMW would KTM have been able to up production of Adventures to meet demand ? Probably not. And if they had tried it could only have been done at the expense of other models.

    Personally I quite like the idea of being able to go out on my Adventure without meeting hundreds of identical bikes everywhere I went (until I got offroad of course :evil:evil:evil:evil)
    #84
  5. DaveyDave

    DaveyDave Been here awhile

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    I remember reading somewhere that KTM made a call not just on their riding ability, but also because they were planning the trip towards the start of the year which meant the rivers would still be high from the winter thaw and therefore they wouldn't be able to complete the trip on bikes without assistance, which is how they were selling the project.

    If that is part of the reason for KTM saying no then you can say they were proved right I guess, they did have to get a train and lifts over the rivers.
    #85
  6. rinho

    rinho Rinho Féroce

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    Probably already said, but I guess the Ktm "way of life" was more in the race mood than the adventure
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  7. MatthewC

    MatthewC n00b

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    The 950 was designed to race and did winning the Dakar in 2002 before it was banned for being too fast. You can find Meoni's bike on the internet and will see it is as close to the street 950 as the 640 was to it's street counterpart.

    Pretty much all KTM riders will agree with you about the 690 adventure. KTM in Cape Town are developing something called the Oryx to fill this gap. effectively a 690 with rallye plastic added. I hope the are adding a bigger tank also
    #87
  8. KaytM

    KaytM Just a fella.

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    #88
  9. BroodRooster

    BroodRooster Adventurer

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    Imagine KTM would have said yes to them, and gave a couple of bikes + support etcetera. They would ride around the world, and KTM would be much more populair for being "the adventure bike". Can you imagine what that would have done to secondhand KTM prices? They would be much higher than they are now. So from that point of view, it's a good thing KTM said no to LWR.
    #89
  10. Pampera

    Pampera Been here awhile

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    Meanwhile back in the real world, I found this little tale on the UK TRF forum:




    Back in Gdansk, I’d give up weighting for BMW to find me a new fuel pump. It’s been 10 days and there is still nothing in the pipeline. One argument for using BMW’s as an adventure bike is that they have car dealers all over the world and in theory can get your bike parts through their dealer network. If that’s your argument for choosing a motorbike then I suggest you buy a bike made by DHL The BMW garage is not impressed by me having a part sent to them from the UK but if I can find one within half an hour on the internet then they should have found one in the 10 days they’ve had so far. I had also ordered a new chain, 15 tooth sprocket and fish joining link from BMW. I had the chain, the fish link had arrived but the garage had lost it and the sprocket still wasn’t there after more than 10 days. Determined to leave Gdansk that day, I ride the bike to a Suzuki/KTM garage I’d seen not far from my friends apartment. Now digest, if you will, the difference in service that I am about to describe to you.
    I arrive and ask if the workshop has time to fit my new chain. The chain from BMW is continuous and I have no grinder to cut the rivet heads off. The garage take my bike in straight away and get to work. Taking the old chain off reveilles that one of the hub bearings is shot, so OK a quick phone call and the sales man gets on his bike to fetch a replacement. The spare chain fish I have are the wrong size, the mechanic, Tomek finds one in the back of a draw somewhere. I have a rear sprocket and a 16 tooth front but I want to ride with a 15 tooth, BMW had had a 15 tooth on order for me for more than 10 days. A quick phone call and these guys buy and fetch one locally in under half an hour? Tomek who uses the word ‘shimmy’ to describe all the faults on my bike goes round it and tightens up all the bolts with a torque wrench. Whilst all this is going on they buy me dinner in their very cool back room bikers bar and to kill a little more time, the sales man, another Tomek, invites me to test ride the new KTM 990 Adventure that’s in the showroom. I really want to take him up on his offer but my bike is almost ready and I’m very keen to get on the road. All in all, the bike is with them much longer than anticipated, three or four hours at a guess. There’s some talk and scratching of heads and these guys decide to charge me for only one hour at half the hourly rate of BMW plus the cost of the parts. What a bunch of stars. If your bike is in any need of anything within a days ride of Gdansk, this is the place to go.
    #90
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  11. Dahveed

    Dahveed Sumo Biker!

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    Good point. What was a small amount from the BMW advertising budget was likely a huge part of KTM's budget. It's much easier to gamble on a project like this when it's a small part of your budget.


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  12. DesertSurfer

    DesertSurfer Tail sprayin

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    The answer seems pretty clear if you're asking " who would you rather trust with your reputation as a solid motorcycle brand" when choosing between Charlie and Ewan... or Cyril and Marc?

    I would think going 1st and 2nd consistently as winners of the greatest race in the world, year in and year out, probably sells way more bikes then KTM can keep up with. I don't know how anyone would want to compare this achievement to what most people would consider a reality travel series?

    Just dunno?
    #92
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  13. Night Falcon

    Night Falcon Structural Failure

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    The question is: knowing what they know now, would KTM have made the same decision? :lurk
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  14. Xtremjeepn

    Xtremjeepn Motorhead!

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    Most motorcycle consumers don't follow racing, especially this type of racing. I would imagine it means even less to those who want to travel on a bike and not race it.

    This is why most of the big manufacturers are pulling their factory teams and just running incentive programs.

    KTM winning or losing any race had no bearing on me buying my KTM, none. :deal



    Just look at how many big BMWs, Harleys, Goldings, etc are out there, hell, look at how many KLR650s there are!! The KLR certainly did not win any races.
    #94
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  15. Dahveed

    Dahveed Sumo Biker!

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    Yep, I only think racers pay any attention to what brands win races. Most riders I know do not race and only a few used to race. They don't care anymore.

    I think the LW series has done more to sell adventure touring motorcycles than any race has.


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  16. charlie264

    charlie264 Long timer

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    I&#8217;d say people don&#8217;t really buy a ford focus cos it won the RAC rally, as per Dakar bikes.

    People realise there is a massive difference between stock road machines and the rally world, hence if you&#8217;re looking for a factory spec race road bike, at least quadruple your budget. Point is LWR was done on pretty much standard machines; KTM dropped a bollock pure and simple.
    #96
  17. DesertSurfer

    DesertSurfer Tail sprayin

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    It was Charlie and Ewan who brought the wrong girl to the dance, cowboy. KTM is the bell of the ball and can pretty much pick and choose their shin dig. And I think their Rally program is the best gig of all... for developing and promoting their brand.

    Owners of KTM Adventures are not the every man's bike owner. The Rally circuit is what made the KTM Adventure what it is.

    That R&D is invaluable.

    That's where I want my money to go toward when I buy a motorcycle, not glossy ad campaigns or high production runs made with cheap parts. And I could give two shits KTM didn't participate in a reality show run by riders making bad choices.

    And... LWR did not create the Adventure bike movement. They were riding the coat tails of every true die hard world adventure traveler, following a path already traveled many times before, by Europeans, Africans, Americans and Australians.

    If Charlie and Ewan wanted to prove themselves as innovators, they could have built their own custom bikes like a lot of privateers do. Now that's R&D.

    I'll tell you what a good Adventure travel series would be... Johnny Campbell and Jimmy Lewis taking the Long Way Round. And give them a small budget to build their own custom machines.

    Sign me up to watch that...
    #97
  18. Dustodust

    Dustodust Long timer

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    IMO KTM made the right decision
    LWR was entertaining and BMW fit charlie and ewans personalities perfect

    I especially liked the part where they had the tizzie fit because KTM said they were not competent to the task and ripped down the KTM poster
    never forget how that doofus kept squirting himself in the eye with gas
    and how fake the whole "adventure" was
    BMW was a perfect fit :lol3
    #98
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  19. Pete640

    Pete640 Long timer

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    Ready to Race...

    This is the KTM Co mission statement. The adv market is not core to their business - racing is, hence the exceptional SX and Enduro bikes that they produce. Everyone thinks the Adv market is the end all and bee all but Id bet the KTM board who met with E+C couldnt give a rats ass about their trip. Sure we all bought the Adv for our own reasons but just have a look at the $$$ KTM have thrown at it since 2003 in revisions. Nil.... Other than FI - whats the difference. Nothing. Just shows were they prefer to spend their R+D $$$.
    Now BMW on the other hand have the 1150/1200 GS bikes and they sell well to a certain demographic. Good on them. They had a go at the enduro market and how long did that last? Not sure if you could buy one at the dealerships now - so hows the support but I digress..
    Just think of the differences between the companies and their directions. KTM race, BMW latte set. How many Gs's have you seen in really tough conditions. Not too many. Thats why you see a heap of them for sale at 18 months with all the fruit and 16000 km on the clock. Mid life crisis dad watches LWR - decides to harden up, buys bike and outfit and heads out on the bitumen. Decides its not for him and sells the bike - buys a Ducati. Have KTM missed out - Id say no, Have BMW capitalised - Id say yes. Did RTD/charlie wingeathon help them sell their enduro bikes - nope.
    Different horses - different courses.
    #99
  20. bdefen

    bdefen Been here awhile

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    I bought the DVD, and found it generally entertaining, but in the end, Charlie and Ewan came off to me as a couple of whiners. Adventure?!...yeah it's a real adventure when you have all those support vehicles and such to take care of you. KTM made the right decision.