TRUE about the hp2 vs SE comparison (but SE wins hands down due to price difference and suspension when both were produced), NOT TRUE about the weight difference of the F8 against the SE. It is so much lighter, it is ridiculous, in fact. The SE with a full 30lt safari tank weighs in at about 210 kgs and the F8 is 220 kgs with half that fuel (dont believe the bmw hype). A standard SE is just under 200 kgs fully fueled and loosing the extremely heavy silencers with akrapovic lightens it a further 8-10kgs. So, if both have aftermarket exhausts, the difference is about 25 kgs. Of course what might be confusing, is the higher seat of the SE. When I am pushing around my SE with akras and rally fairing (+3.5kgs) it feels like a bicycle in comparison to my friends F8.