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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by windmill, Apr 8, 2020.
Here, people have a tendency to zip up beside someone, then back off to their speed - pacing.
Oh yeah. That's annoying as hell.
Interesting... Now that it's mentioned you are right. Not as much of the "hear my thunder" crowd - regardless of bike make.
First time I've encountered the term "brodozers"... I like it. A lot of obnoxious individuals there, especially in the diesel powered "dozers".
Interesting part with the bike rider - in a lot of countries where bikes are transportation as well as a "hobby" they will allow for your last situation, allowing space for others when it is possible. A friend who spent years in Europe in the service and riding commented about the fact that if a road was wide enough the drivers would go three lane. Moving over a bit for a bike was common. Another who was on a Beach Tour of the Alps got caught out. They were told passing was expected and not to hesitate to do it with some care. My friend was passing, but underestimated speeds of the cars and was in the center with a car coming head on. A woman in the Mercedes beside him that he was passing calmly moved over to the right enough to allow him space and the on coming driver moved to the left enough to make room for all three. Oh to have that kind of courtesy here.
I don't know about that, could be true could not be true. One other possibility is that those officers don't see the value in the chase. Why risk their own lives to try to chase some fool at triple digits. Especially if roads are clear. Why add risk to themselves as well. Let the Darwin theory take control.
Never ever said you weren't justified since it isn't a legal action to pass if in a non-passing zone or if not allowing for safe passing. I said just that it's courtesy in Europe because it is part of the driving culture, different thought process than in the U.S. Didn't make it right in the U.S., only saying it is part of Euro driving culture that is lacking here. It wouldn't have been a "dick move" depending on the road ways in some of Europe if not all of it. Like lane splitting in California, there is a legal way to do it and drivers expect it. Not true in most states.
Maybe someone here can fill us in better on passing in European countries.
Having lived in Germany, and France, I know there's plenty of jerk drivers in Europe too, but the high cost of licencing, insurance, and fuel limits the field of road users, and is a strong motivation to avoid issues rather than satiate oneself.
So you are saying there is more courtesy in driving in Europe and attitude toward motorcyclists?
My riding experiences in Europe were limited to mopeds and bicycles.
I would say there's actually less "courtesy", but better driving skills, and more law compliance in its place.
Courtesy Vs. compliance, The more road users exercise one, the less the other is needed. That said, the problem with courtesy is its subject to individual interpretation, and often not reciprocal or equitable.
One thing that seems more prevalent in the US is resentment towards anyone who "unfairly" gets to go ahead because they are on a motorcycle or bicycle. And lots of people in US are outright hostile towards bicyclists.
Talk about aggressive driving on open roads... Checked our local police information yesterday - we were driving home from out of town, and heard about some road closures near our home due to protests.
Our PD's Instagram was showing an Audi on a tow truck, along with a photo of a radar gun reading. They arrested a driver going 110 mph on the boulevard that my street comes off of. I've hit 50 on that street and felt really guilty. Jeez.
They are in Europe too, but they're less likely be openly aggressive towards them because of stiff penalties, and cyclists aren't as stigmatized. It also doesn't hurt that cyclists are more likely to obey the law, and the brodozer/boy racer types are less likely to have a licence or vehicle.
The "gene pool" is constantly adjusting, going out to extremes to be snapped back. Usually a good rain storm or cold weather, ice eliminate those portions of the pool that are to the extreme. We used to call it "Pony Patrol" for the number of Ford Mustangs in the ditch. If you don't have those "genetic equalizers" in your area I can imagine that it shows up in some form even if you don't have the equivalent of a giant meteor hitting the Yucatan. I imagine that the buildup in the "gene pool" develops differently too. Great demographics if already understood by insurance companies, cops, repair shops. Don't be the one who fails to understand physics especially on a bike. You're at a disadvantage.
I was thinking about this thread on Monday as I spent a little extended time on the interstate. Sure enough, I had at least a dozen cars pass me at well over a 100 mph. Not fancy cars or brodozers either. Just regular ol' people who have suddenly decided it's OK to double the speed limit.
Lots of chat here about what appears to be the cultural impacts of draconian (Orwellian?) traffic policing .
I find that the angriest, most dangerous drivers seem to be in places where the laws and repercussions are strictest (low speeds, over policing, huge fines, aggressive police who think they are in the special forces because someone gave them a gun etc etc).
Countries which are less "police state" seem more courteous, friendly, considerate in driving habits. Stuff still happens, but people are happier. There is a LOT of anger in the world at the moment, we don't need more. Oz has hardly any people (relative) and so much going for it but the driving standards here are the worst i've seen in the world. That goes for aggression too. It's also over policed and frankly retarded.
Given the opportunity to do the right thing and 90% will do that and work together. There will ALWAYS be those who try to stuff it up for everyone else. It's a question how we deal with it. The issue in many countries now is that EVERYONE is now being punished. That kinda sucks and causes resentment, aggression, etc.
Driver education, education, education will win over punishment, punishment, punishment.
Just a humble, random, musing. Don't underestimate the value of happinesss.
I am always trying to decide if they are so clueless as to be doing it unconsciously, or they are deliberately just trying to piss everyone off. I'm thinking they are right in the middle, half idiot and half evil bastard. Need a word for that.
Always just called them "Brain dead, fuckin assholes" or a variation thereof.
When that got really bad on the freeways near me, I noticed the CHP starting to employ two car teams - one car parked behind a bridge abutment, who could target the triple-digit driver and radio ahead to another car, staged on an on-ramp, who could get moving and take down the idiot.
How about "I can pay less attention to everything if I just go as fast as this other guy. Hey, I just got a text!"
Seems hard to hold that pace. I have had people tailgate me and when I move over they don't pass, or pass half assed and slow down. Those people are actually using my rear bumper as a pace setter while they text, I believe.
People that follow WAY too close (cars and motorcycles), and people that pace me in traffic really burn me. I do NOT want anyone around or near me whenever I can. People that have the cruise set on 71 in a 70 zone then move to the left (multi lane) to "pass" while nearly pacing the overtaking vehicle for like a mile actually create more danger than if they were to pass on the left at 80.
Then you get the mindless twits that charge up on me, so I move over and they SLLLLLOOOOWWWLLYYY pass, and then not maintain the speed they had after passing and now in front of me. So now I pass. Then they charge up again to repeat. ARGH!! Just set the damn cruise at about five over the slow lane, maintain distance and keep moving!
Biggest thing is most drivers barely think about the driving process while at the wheel. Not sure if autonomous cars will improve that or not. So if a group of autonomous cars get all linked up speed wise, some in each lane, will the cars just pace each other? Or is there logic in the autonomous control to minimize clustering?
My friend has a Tesla with Autopilot. It pretty much drives itself. You can only set the cruise to 5 mph over. It has adaptive cruise so if it comes up on a car, it will stay back to the preset distance you told it to and then follows in sync.