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Witnessed a fatal MC accident today

Discussion in 'Face Plant' started by sonoran, Dec 29, 2018.

  1. Friz Freleng

    Friz Freleng Religious zealot Supporter

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    I have to agree with Sal. Here is CA, a new rider under the age of 18 has to take a motorcycle training course before he/she can get an endorsement. I think it ought to be required of all new endorsement applicants. I mean, really, it's kind of absurd that a brand new 16 year-old motorcycle rider could go directly from the DMV to a BMW dealer and buy a brand new S1000rr.
  2. Khantahr

    Khantahr Been here awhile

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    I think training should be mandatory, because it's not only themselves that a rider's training, or lack thereof, affects. Out riding in the dirt by yourself or with friends, sure, teach yourself. Out on the road where everything you do can affect others, no way. Even putting safety aside, not knowing what you're doing on the road influences traffic (makes it worse), which wastes everybody's time, costs everybody more money, and adds more pollution.
    scarysharkface and Sal Pairadice like this.
  3. overtone

    overtone Been here awhile

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    Indeed, good Sir, we have to override biology that predisposes us to fixate on the problem, and it's not easy, but it must be done.

    I spent 25 years lane-splitting on a 80-100 mile roundtrip commute. Nothing like riding between the meshing cogs of a giant meat grinder to teach you where and how you must, and must not, look. Truly it is zen, like a samurai duel. You have to look everywhere, and nowhere. If you fixate on anything, you're done.
  4. Sal Pairadice

    Sal Pairadice Captain Obvious

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    You better look for an escape route.
  5. FreewheelBurning

    FreewheelBurning Been here awhile

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    This is probably different around the world and depends on culture, politics and individuality. Where I'm from, Norway, my impression or at least my opinion is that there is no given right to ride what you want or drive what you want. You got to earn the right by gaining the correct skill set before you're allowed to drive in traffic. We have certain demands. We also have public hospitals so if people get injured or killed in traffic, that is an expense the society much pay for. All in all I think strict riding license requirements save lives.
    Junglejeff1 likes this.
  6. sonoran

    sonoran bigly Supporter

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    To be clear the only requirement for an MC license in AZ is to pass a basic skills test conducted by the DMV.

    I just took a look at the Arizona Motorcyclists Manual which is prep for the riding test. There is only 1 mention of countersteering in the document and it refers to trikes.

    https://www.azdot.gov/docs/default-source/mvd-forms-pubs/99-0129.pdf

    I think I will write to ADOT and ask them to include a section on proper steering techniques.
  7. ExplorerFrog

    ExplorerFrog Been here awhile Supporter

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    Tough thing to see as I've been unfortunate to see the same. I hope the truck driver is mentally okay as that is a tough place to be.
  8. Haldor

    Haldor Been here awhile

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    You go where you look. It has happened to me. I got lucky.
  9. Haldor

    Haldor Been here awhile

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    Looks like a truck tire. Can't imagine trying to horse that into a lean.
    Sal Pairadice likes this.
  10. RustyStuff

    RustyStuff Long timer Supporter

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    The worst feeling in the world is watching something like that happen.

    Saw the aftermath of a car hit and run vs moto crash last spring. First the SUV with the smashed up front blew by me, then the cops giving chase. Got few blocks further down the street and here's the bike smashed up on the side of the road, cop car pulled around to shield the riders body from view but you could still see the paramedics working on him. Bad times. Happened right in front of the paramedics/ambulance office, Rider didn't have a chance even then.
    Bad times.
    CROSSBOLT likes this.
  11. Knapper-UK

    Knapper-UK Been here awhile

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    Going back to page one, young lad I know witnessed a very similar smash over here a couple of weeks ago. Very popular coastal biking road, on a busy sunny Sunday.
    A guy on a sports bike was racing with his mates. Tore past three of them on a long straight that ends in a blind summit. Guess he didn't know the road or didn't read the warning signs but the summit also has a leftward bend on it. If you know the road you know you need to start your steering input before cresting the rise. He didn't. Sailed over the summit and found himself on the wrong side of the road and ploughed head-on into an oncoming car.
    He was probably doing a ton. I know from experience that 90 mph will see air under your tyres as you go over that crest, On my 1190 Adv with it's massive suspension travel you can get away with a certain amount of that. On a stiff, short travel suspension sports bike he would have gone horribly out of shape.

    The bike was cut in half with the front end wedged in the car's engine bay. The rider's body struck the windscreen and stoved the roof and door pillars on its way to being catapulted into a field fifty yards away. He was 44 and survived long enough to be airlifted to hospital but died the following morning. the occupants of the car suffered whiplash (and I imagine life-long emotional trauma) but were otherwise unhurt.
    The young lad who witnessed it was pretty shaken by the experience. He's talked about it several times and I don't think he'll ever forget it.

    There's no point criticising the rider. He's made his mistake and paid his price already, but it's worth learning lessons.
    This stretch of road is notorious for bike accidents. It's a challenging biking road, even when you know it well, fairly narrow with plenty of bends but none of them are really nasty. Being coastal and exposed there aren't many hedges and visibility through the bends is good. The danger are the switchbacks and blind summits. There are several of them and they are signed. But on sunny weekends the road is busy. The views are stunning and it's rammed with day trippers, sightseers and weekend warrior bikers. It's absolutely not the time or the place to have a burn-up with your mates. We've all done it and got away with it. This poor guy's luck ran out. Time and place boys and girls. Play safe.
  12. CROSSBOLT

    CROSSBOLT Been here awhile

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    We have one of these here in the states called "The Tail of the Dragon." I always wanted to ride it until I started hearing of the crashes and watching videos of some incredibly senseless speed riding. I have found twisties elsewhere less populated.
  13. Sal Pairadice

    Sal Pairadice Captain Obvious

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    It's enough usually to just be out riding. No need to raise the stakes so dramatically. My days of extreme foolish speeding are hopefully mostly behind me. Although I still like to ride at a pace that a competent rider enjoys.

    But when we were born nobody asked us if we wanted to live in a world where literally everybody is whizzing around propelled by gasoline motors. Its entertaining but people are bound to get hurt.
    CROSSBOLT likes this.
  14. foxtrapper

    foxtrapper Long timer

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    Having done it, I concur. The stupidity exhibited on it is remarkable. Glad I did it, got the sticker, see no reason to ever do it again.
    CROSSBOLT likes this.
  15. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

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    About 40 years ago I watched a rider lose it over angled railroad tracks. He lived and recovered pretty well. He nearly tore off his ear, concussion, jawbone showing in one spot, will never be able to grow a good hipster beard. The head has really good blood supply, what a mess. You could see his spot in the road for months. That has made me a lifelong helmet user. It may have saved me once or twice.

    Rod
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  16. petertakov

    petertakov Been here awhile

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    Good. It will make you a better rider.
  17. Rhino-1

    Rhino-1 Long timer

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    I must be getting old. I'm beginning to think the "graduated-scale licensing" idea is a good one. Call me a hypocrite (for I was once just such a rider) but I see quite a few very young riders on 600 and 1000 cc bikes just hammering on the streets and freeways. And my morning commute is riddled with news of "motorcycle accident on such and such freeway causing a SIG alert..." Granted, they may not all be young riders on sport bikes, but I think licesning at any age should be appropriate to the vehicle being driven. Much as I hate to admit it, driving/riding here in the US is a privilege, not a right... sorry to interject.
    WVhillbilly and scarysharkface like this.
  18. PhotoAl

    PhotoAl Adventurer

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    Im old and agree with you! Never have been a big fan of instant licenses. However when my wife finally let me get a motorcycle our youngest child was a senior in high school. I messed around on bikes as a teen but hadn't ridden in many years. Well here in Alabama I had a motorcycle endorsement on my license because I was grandfathered in! My youngest daughter got her license by reading the book and taking the test. She rode my Honda Metropolitan scooter around the neighborhood and at college. I do a lot of motorcycle racing photography and have seen many crashes at the track. Its a wonder my wife ever let me get a bike after seeing my photos. Have never witnessed a fatal crash and hope I never do. To get a racing license you must go to a school and then take a final exam - doc race. Crash and you have failed! In amateur racing classes are divided into two groups, expert and novice. Experts usually know what they are doing but the novice groups can be interesting. Last year watched a novice ride too fast into a tight hairpin nailed the brakes and proceeded to flip the bike over the front wheel. I have a photo of him completely upside down with he head on the pavement and bent to the side, eyes are looking towards me. he and the bike tumble into the grass the bike appeared to tumble over him but examining the photos it actually kind of wobbled over him. Front wheel hit on his left then back wheel hit on the other side. Terrible feeling watching him motionless on the side of the track as the corner worker ran to him. Race stopped ambulance came and after a couple of minutes he proceeded to get up and walk to the ambulance. I breathed a huge sigh of relief!!! Probably the best example of brain fade Ive witnessed and he probably could have made the turn at the speed he was going.

    In this thread, my story and all others I always try and learn from it and apply it to when I am riding on the street. A number of years ago I read an article that said "there are times you just have to trust your tires" I was riding on a country road and went past a parking area, thought the road went straight as I glanced at the parking lot. No it turned left, I looked back just in time to realize that and the thought came to mind "trust your tires" I leaned the bike over and made the turn very easily. For the OP, thanks for posting, I think it means a lot to know that there is a large community that care for bikers and for you. As for HDs and handling over the years I have encountered some very good riders on Harleys. Folks who know how to ride, know their bikes and their limitations and ride accordingly.

    Final note: It's that time of year again when deer go hunting cars and motorcycles so be extra vigilant.
    Rhino-1 and CROSSBOLT like this.
  19. concours

    concours WFO for 47 years

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    The FIRST THING I noticed on the first page. That squared off (long ago worn out) tire should not have been in service.
    The closest I ever came to dying on two wheels, was with a squared off tire on my XS1100. Never, ever again. As you corner hard, the contact patch suddenly reduces by a huge amount, just when you need it most.
    RIP
  20. Friz Freleng

    Friz Freleng Religious zealot Supporter

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    My brother did exactly that way back in 1974--he rode diagonally across a set of wet railroad tracks and dumped his bike in a low speed crash. After he rode home and confessed the incident to our (decidedly nonplussed) policeman father, my brother showed us his helmet. Deep gouges running from the top of the face shield area and across the side. He would have left part of his skull on the pavement if he hadn't been wearing a helmet. And he was only going 20-30mph. As far as I was concerned, that was the crystalline moment when the Universe told me to always wear a helmet. I've never forgotten it.
    Rockred likes this.